Chinese medicine
Oct 19, 2015, 6:08 pm
#1
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Chinese medicine
Recently visited Beijing and during the tour one of the stops was at a government Chinese medicine center. I have allergies for which I have been taking allergy shots (immune therapy) and while I have not been fully cured, there has been some improvement. I did not buy anything there at the time.
Curious what people here think about Chinese medicine. I might be visiting soon and am wondering if it is worth buying it.
Curious what people here think about Chinese medicine. I might be visiting soon and am wondering if it is worth buying it.
Oct 19, 2015, 6:25 pm
#2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast USA
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Some of it works, some of it is BS and old wives' tales. Don't mix western and Chinese medicine taken internally unless your (regular) doctor knows and OK's it, since you could end up with some dangerous combinations or medicines working at cross-purposes, if you don't know what you're doing. Acupuncture does work for many applications. I haven't heard of Chinese medicine being of much use in curing most allergies, but I haven't done specific research on the topic either since I'm not an allergy sufferer. I'd suggest that you give your current therapy more time.
Oct 20, 2015, 8:05 am
#3
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tri-State Area
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I've used off/on since late 60's. Back in the old days, whenever I got slammed with bad cold in Taiwan, would see Chinese doctor. He'd prescribe some awful tasting drink that was delivered to my parent's home once a day and I'd drink it....but it seemed to work! I'd literally sweat the cold out of my system, quite quickly.
The major concern these days is the impurities and qc of the meds, especially from China (but other countries not immune to this).
My wife still takes them regularly for her allergies, from a respected Taiwan practitioner who she visits twice a year. And agree with jj, acupuncture also very helpful. Stateside, during allergy system our acupuncturist in NYC has patients lining up for treatment. I've also used acupuncture post shoulder surgery to accelerate recovery....
As usual YMMV.
The major concern these days is the impurities and qc of the meds, especially from China (but other countries not immune to this).
My wife still takes them regularly for her allergies, from a respected Taiwan practitioner who she visits twice a year. And agree with jj, acupuncture also very helpful. Stateside, during allergy system our acupuncturist in NYC has patients lining up for treatment. I've also used acupuncture post shoulder surgery to accelerate recovery....
As usual YMMV.
Oct 20, 2015, 8:47 pm
#4
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,410
Some of it works, some of it is BS and old wives' tales. Don't mix western and Chinese medicine taken internally unless your (regular) doctor knows and OK's it, since you could end up with some dangerous combinations or medicines working at cross-purposes, if you don't know what you're doing. Acupuncture does work for many applications. I haven't heard of Chinese medicine being of much use in curing most allergies, but I haven't done specific research on the topic either since I'm not an allergy sufferer. I'd suggest that you give your current therapy more time.
(My wife does acupuncture. My mother taught psychology and did some clinical hypnosis. When my wife described what she does to help people quit smoking my mother immediately realized that it was fundamentally exactly what she would do even though the actual actions were totally different. Lacking proper controlled testing an obvious case of placebo effect remains in their arsenal. On the other hand sex would have been over more than a decade ago without her knowledge of Chinese herbs--beyond HRT all the docs said was "lubricant" but that wasn't the issue.)
Oct 21, 2015, 8:25 pm
#5
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Beijing Hospital of TCM
Went there a few times. They have a treatment where they can direct whatever ails you out the top of your head, without touching you. At the time I was just an observer and had no ailment, consequently no affect. But quite unusual none the less.
No.23 Art Gallery Back Street, Dongcheng District, Beijing
www.bjzhongyi.com
Went there a few times. They have a treatment where they can direct whatever ails you out the top of your head, without touching you. At the time I was just an observer and had no ailment, consequently no affect. But quite unusual none the less.
No.23 Art Gallery Back Street, Dongcheng District, Beijing
www.bjzhongyi.com
Oct 24, 2015, 7:59 am
#6
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Chinese medicine is based on the principle of "Five Elements," which governs the health of the body. Without going into details, Chinese medicine (traditionally) seeks to adjust the body in its entirety rather than target a specific symptom.
The "traditional Chinese medicine" (TCM) practiced on Mainland China today is a blend of Western science and old-school know-how that came as the result of Mainland China's push to modernize Chinese culture in the 1950s and '60s (before the Cultural Revolution). TCM is not practiced in other parts of Greater China. To many traditional practitioners, TCM is a politically-loaded term that hides the fact many old ways were abolished, and the compendium of herbal ingredients (there is an official book) was greatly reduced in its diversity. In Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, and Taiwan, "classical Chinese medicine" can be very different and more true to traditions.
I have mixed feelings about Chinese medicine as a whole. I like the holistic aspect of treating health as a system rather than a collection of parts, but some of the old ways, such as making medicine out of shark fins and rhinoceros horns, are downright inhumane (and to which I can understand why the Chinese themselves, including both the 1911 and 1949 governments, had tried to outlaw Chinese medicine in its entirety).
IMO, and this is just one person's view, I use Chinese medicine as a dietary supplement to maintain the "balance" in my health. Things I buy in Mainland China include ginseng and caterpillar fungus. I don't use Chinese medicine when I'm ill.
The "traditional Chinese medicine" (TCM) practiced on Mainland China today is a blend of Western science and old-school know-how that came as the result of Mainland China's push to modernize Chinese culture in the 1950s and '60s (before the Cultural Revolution). TCM is not practiced in other parts of Greater China. To many traditional practitioners, TCM is a politically-loaded term that hides the fact many old ways were abolished, and the compendium of herbal ingredients (there is an official book) was greatly reduced in its diversity. In Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, and Taiwan, "classical Chinese medicine" can be very different and more true to traditions.
I have mixed feelings about Chinese medicine as a whole. I like the holistic aspect of treating health as a system rather than a collection of parts, but some of the old ways, such as making medicine out of shark fins and rhinoceros horns, are downright inhumane (and to which I can understand why the Chinese themselves, including both the 1911 and 1949 governments, had tried to outlaw Chinese medicine in its entirety).
IMO, and this is just one person's view, I use Chinese medicine as a dietary supplement to maintain the "balance" in my health. Things I buy in Mainland China include ginseng and caterpillar fungus. I don't use Chinese medicine when I'm ill.
May 3, 2017, 2:26 pm
#10
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 351
I have had 2 Chinese wives who were both doctors. (First, deceased and second divorced). My first wife graduated from Tongji in Wuhan and my second wife worked at the third largest hospital in Beijing, which was very prestigious. I also deal with many highly educated and intelligent Chinese people a good amount of the time. I myself practiced workers compensation law for 17 years and deposed many highly qualified, board certified doctors, particularly in the fields of orthopedics, neurology and cardiology.
My conclusion is that the quality of medicine is much more uneven in China than in the US. Exactly where that comes from, I don't know, but that is my experience. I would guess that part of the unevenness comes from the many superstitions that the Chinese, even very highly educated ones, have about medicine. For instance, most people in China generally believe that cold drinks are unhealthy. Some of the Chinese doctors that I met were very committed and very kind professionals.
A Methacholine challenge test that was performed on my then asthmatic 10-year-old son illustrates the issues. The test really wasn't absolutely necessary, but I thought that if I could save several thousand dollars while in Beijing that the test was worth doing. My son only had mild asthma. The test came back saying that he had severe asthma. I knew it was wrong. When I discussed the test with my son's American pulmonary specialist, he stated that he had worked in Shanghai for a while and that the Chinese doctors there incorrectly performed a number of pulmonary function tests.
My bottom line is that I wouldn't have sophisticated procedures done in China unless I knew the doctor very well. I am sure there are a good number of very good doctors in China, but, particularly an American with little connections in China, would have a difficult time distinguishing the good ones from the others. Also, you should know that generally speaking the salaries of doctors in China are not high and that gifts are an expected part of the payment that doctors are to receive.
My conclusion is that the quality of medicine is much more uneven in China than in the US. Exactly where that comes from, I don't know, but that is my experience. I would guess that part of the unevenness comes from the many superstitions that the Chinese, even very highly educated ones, have about medicine. For instance, most people in China generally believe that cold drinks are unhealthy. Some of the Chinese doctors that I met were very committed and very kind professionals.
A Methacholine challenge test that was performed on my then asthmatic 10-year-old son illustrates the issues. The test really wasn't absolutely necessary, but I thought that if I could save several thousand dollars while in Beijing that the test was worth doing. My son only had mild asthma. The test came back saying that he had severe asthma. I knew it was wrong. When I discussed the test with my son's American pulmonary specialist, he stated that he had worked in Shanghai for a while and that the Chinese doctors there incorrectly performed a number of pulmonary function tests.
My bottom line is that I wouldn't have sophisticated procedures done in China unless I knew the doctor very well. I am sure there are a good number of very good doctors in China, but, particularly an American with little connections in China, would have a difficult time distinguishing the good ones from the others. Also, you should know that generally speaking the salaries of doctors in China are not high and that gifts are an expected part of the payment that doctors are to receive.
May 3, 2017, 4:19 pm
#11
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My bottom line is that I wouldn't have sophisticated procedures done in China unless I knew the doctor very well. I am sure there are a good number of very good doctors in China, but, particularly an American with little connections in China, would have a difficult time distinguishing the good ones from the others.
May 3, 2017, 7:35 pm
#12
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,410
I have had 2 Chinese wives who were both doctors. (First, deceased and second divorced). My first wife graduated from Tongji in Wuhan and my second wife worked at the third largest hospital in Beijing, which was very prestigious. I also deal with many highly educated and intelligent Chinese people a good amount of the time. I myself practiced workers compensation law for 17 years and deposed many highly qualified, board certified doctors, particularly in the fields of orthopedics, neurology and cardiology.
My conclusion is that the quality of medicine is much more uneven in China than in the US. Exactly where that comes from, I don't know, but that is my experience. I would guess that part of the unevenness comes from the many superstitions that the Chinese, even very highly educated ones, have about medicine. For instance, most people in China generally believe that cold drinks are unhealthy. Some of the Chinese doctors that I met were very committed and very kind professionals.
A Methacholine challenge test that was performed on my then asthmatic 10-year-old son illustrates the issues. The test really wasn't absolutely necessary, but I thought that if I could save several thousand dollars while in Beijing that the test was worth doing. My son only had mild asthma. The test came back saying that he had severe asthma. I knew it was wrong. When I discussed the test with my son's American pulmonary specialist, he stated that he had worked in Shanghai for a while and that the Chinese doctors there incorrectly performed a number of pulmonary function tests.
My bottom line is that I wouldn't have sophisticated procedures done in China unless I knew the doctor very well. I am sure there are a good number of very good doctors in China, but, particularly an American with little connections in China, would have a difficult time distinguishing the good ones from the others. Also, you should know that generally speaking the salaries of doctors in China are not high and that gifts are an expected part of the payment that doctors are to receive.
My conclusion is that the quality of medicine is much more uneven in China than in the US. Exactly where that comes from, I don't know, but that is my experience. I would guess that part of the unevenness comes from the many superstitions that the Chinese, even very highly educated ones, have about medicine. For instance, most people in China generally believe that cold drinks are unhealthy. Some of the Chinese doctors that I met were very committed and very kind professionals.
A Methacholine challenge test that was performed on my then asthmatic 10-year-old son illustrates the issues. The test really wasn't absolutely necessary, but I thought that if I could save several thousand dollars while in Beijing that the test was worth doing. My son only had mild asthma. The test came back saying that he had severe asthma. I knew it was wrong. When I discussed the test with my son's American pulmonary specialist, he stated that he had worked in Shanghai for a while and that the Chinese doctors there incorrectly performed a number of pulmonary function tests.
My bottom line is that I wouldn't have sophisticated procedures done in China unless I knew the doctor very well. I am sure there are a good number of very good doctors in China, but, particularly an American with little connections in China, would have a difficult time distinguishing the good ones from the others. Also, you should know that generally speaking the salaries of doctors in China are not high and that gifts are an expected part of the payment that doctors are to receive.
Here, even, in the traditional medicine it's quite variable. She is quite unimpressed with many of the traditional Chinese doctors here. (Example from her license exam: There was another woman there also taking the exam--who kept trying to ask her questions. Somehow she thought that using a language the proctor wouldn't understand would let her get away with it. I do not know for certain but I think this is the same woman that utterly bombed the test and said they would send someone with syphilis to the fire department. The woman that took the exam with my wife certainly never showed up here, she must have gone back to her practice in California.)
May 3, 2017, 7:55 pm
#13
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May 6, 2017, 7:44 pm
#14
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 70
I've had plenty of experience with TCM (years and years of taking it for childhood asthma and more) and from my experience, TCM is as much dependent on who you go to as it is what you take. Reputation and word of mouth recommendations are especially important.
Aug 2, 2017, 10:41 pm
#15
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 351
Just an update on an incident for the benefit of others. My 16-year-old son is visiting Wuhan, and about 3 weeks ago he started having nosebleeds every day. The only medicine I could find for him was a saline solution. I left him with his aunt and uncle and tried to run down other medicines (afrine). Also, tried to get an appointment to talk to his pediatrician in the US. (wouldn't do it). Really preferred that if cauterization were to be done that it be done when he returned to the US, which at that time would have been 3 weeks later. One night his bleeding got so bad he had to go to the hospital. His nose was cauterized, and it worked. He is not having any pain now.
Two things different from US practice. 1. He said the cauterization was very painful when it was performed. (In the US when it was done previously, it was nothing) and 2. It only cost 500 yuan. In the US, it would have been much more.
Two things different from US practice. 1. He said the cauterization was very painful when it was performed. (In the US when it was done previously, it was nothing) and 2. It only cost 500 yuan. In the US, it would have been much more.