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Planning trip to China in October, draft itinerary

Planning trip to China in October, draft itinerary

Old Sep 28, 2012, 7:32 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by moondog
Because I'd be mad hungry after waking up at 5, dining at a 7-11, and enduring a domestic Chinese flight. Second, it's on the way, and we're only talking about a y70 taxi plus a y15 taxi. That y85 easily makes up the difference between a meal in Shenzhen and a meal at a comparable eatery in HK. Third, I'm a firm advocate of the idea that anyone who subjects himself to the Shenzhen Shuffle should at least try to do something/anything in Shenzhen in order to justify it. Finally, when getting a bus at SZX, there's a chance of picking a bus company that uses one of the less pleasant border crossings; yeah, you can ask them, but those who don't speak decent Chinese are prone to being mislead.
Which is why I only tell people to use ChinaLink, as they only use Shenzhen Bay (except the very last SZX departure at 11:00p); and all buses go directly to Elements first. The Shenzhen Shuffle is done only because of cost, or there's no non-stop flights to HKG. Plain and simple. No other reason needed to justify it.

For someone who has luggage, and/or doesn't speak Chinese, there's no better option other than private van. And nothing in Shekou is worth an extra stop - it's not like the restaurants are right at the border - as you said, it's one taxi to that particular place to eat, and another taxi to get back to Shenzhen Bay.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 10:22 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by rkkwan
as you said, it's one taxi to that particular place to eat, and another taxi to get back to Shenzhen Bay.
There's no "back" about it because it's literally "on the way". Maybe you or the OP would be able to enjoy the food on the airplane enough to refrain from a desire to eat upon landing in Shenzhen, but I certainly wouldn't.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 10:28 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by moondog
There's no "back" about it because it's literally "on the way". Maybe you or the OP would be able to enjoy the food on the airplane enough to refrain from a desire to eat upon landing in Shenzhen, but I certainly wouldn't.
Not that I'll enjoy the food in flight, but my sight will be straight towards Hong Kong. Nothing will detour me between SZX and the border.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 5:33 pm
  #34  
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I'm going to monitor the direct flights to HKG for the next few days, as suggested, to see if any seats open up. After that, I'll try booking the flight through XMN. It is only 6 hrs traveling time and there are tickets available for CNY1120+290 tax/fees.

Just out of idle curiosity, why are there so many flights to HKG connecting through PVG and only 2 direct flights? I can't imagine why it's even an option, when it's only 300 miles to HKG from KWL but PVG is 800 miles each way from KWL. Mind you, if you're planning a mileage run, who'd complain

Thanks again for the help.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 6:20 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by greatwhitenorth
I'm going to monitor the direct flights to HKG for the next few days, as suggested, to see if any seats open up. After that, I'll try booking the flight through XMN. It is only 6 hrs traveling time and there are tickets available for CNY1120+290 tax/fees.

Just out of idle curiosity, why are there so many flights to HKG connecting through PVG and only 2 direct flights? I can't imagine why it's even an option, when it's only 300 miles to HKG from KWL but PVG is 800 miles each way from KWL. Mind you, if you're planning a mileage run, who'd complain

Thanks again for the help.
I really hate doing connecting flights within China, and I also hate waking up at 5a in order to catch a flight. That having been said, the latter is the lesser of the two evils (1.5 hours v. 6 hours). Furthermore, less time in Yangshuo = more time in HK.

Regarding the mileage run aspect, nobody plays that game here.
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Old Sep 28, 2012, 8:50 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by greatwhitenorth
I'm going to monitor the direct flights to HKG for the next few days, as suggested, to see if any seats open up. After that, I'll try booking the flight through XMN. It is only 6 hrs traveling time and there are tickets available for CNY1120+290 tax/fees.

Just out of idle curiosity, why are there so many flights to HKG connecting through PVG and only 2 direct flights? I can't imagine why it's even an option, when it's only 300 miles to HKG from KWL but PVG is 800 miles each way from KWL. Mind you, if you're planning a mileage run, who'd complain

Thanks again for the help.
Like moondog says, just as huge a hassle doing connecting flights in China. A lot of times, bags cannot be transferred and you are required to check-in again at your connecting airport. Not to mention, PVG/SHA-HKG flights are often delayed, as the airways are congested between the cities.

And to answer your question, simply there's no demand for KWL-HKG. Guilin is a tourist attraction, not a major industrial or financial base. It's not even the capital of Guanxi Province, one of the poorer and less industrialised in all of China. So, no business trips, and also no wealthy Chinese from Guilin coming to Hong Kong for shopping trips.

Add to that Guilin is an old tourist place for Hong Kongers. I'll say probably most locals who have a "Homeland Return Permit" has visited Guilin and it's not a place one needs to visit and visit again. And for the budget travellers in Hong Kong, cheap tour groups will use buses to get from Hong Kong, and not by plane. Other budget travellers from Hong Kong (on photo-club trips, or volunteering work in the poor rural areas, or visiting relatives) will fly from SZX, poor timing flight or otherwise.

So, those two flights are enough to satisfy the few foreign tourists who decide to make Guilin and Hong Kong on the same trip, or the few relatively wealthy Hong Kongers who want to visit Guilin/Yangshuo for the 20th time, or the few wealthy Guiliners who decide to come to HK for some LV bags.

On the other hand, who are the majority of tourists in Guilin? They are the newly wealthy Chinese from coastal cities. Like Shanghai or Hangzhou or Nanjing or Suzhou, and so on... Not Canadians or Hong Kongers or Japanese. And Shanghai itself has population many times that of Hong Kong, with plenty of them still haven't got their pictures taken in Guilin.

And if you look at flights between HKG and China, most cities only get a few flights a day, except Beijing and Shanghai. Even Kunming - capital of Yunnan, a province with vastly more interesting attractions than Guangxi - only gets three. And Chengdu, one of the largest cities in China and most important in Southwest China - gets five and that's it.

Last edited by rkkwan; Sep 28, 2012 at 9:00 pm
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 3:48 am
  #37  
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Trip report

Well, we just got back from our 3 week trip through China and I wanted to thank all of you who gave me advice. It was spot on and helped make it a great trip with no issues that we had any control over.

Our final itinerary was:
Beijing for 6 nights
Hangzhou for 2 nights
Shanghai for 3 nights
Xi'an for 2 nights
Yangshuo for 3 nights
Hong Kong for 4 nights

Beijing - our stay here for 6 nights was pretty well a perfect length of stay. We saw everything we wanted to see without feeling rushed or getting ourselves exhausted. The first day was pretty well just recovering from the flight and going for Peking Duck at Made in China, which was outstanding. After that, we spent the next 5 days visiting hutongs, Lama Temple, Ancient Observatory, Forbidden City, Summer Palace, Tiananmen Square, the Panjiayuan Market and the Great Wall, Mutianyu. We enjoyed each site and didn't regret visiting them. We also spent a couple of hours on several days just wandering around, taking pictures and shopping - ie. we walked back from the Lama Temple to our hotel, the Hilton Wangfujing.

I must admit that walking, or make that climbing, the wall at Mutianyu was quite strenuous, especially the km or so to the right when you get off the chairlift. The views were definitely worth it, once we caught our breath. For our trip to the Wall, I asked the concierge but the hotel was charging 1200, which was way too much. So, on the way back from the Forbidden City, a random man came up and asked if we wanted a tour to the Wall for 350. From reading FT, I knew what was coming but we huddled and decided to see what his offer was. 350 for the trip to the Wall and to the Summer Palace, with 30 min. stops at the "silk factory" and a "tea ceremony" or 850 for the trip without any side stops. We decided to go for the one with the side stops but before we got in the van the next morning, I discussed the itinerary with our "guide". She seemed honest and said no more than 30 mins at each with at least 2 hrs each at the Wall and at the Summer Palace. So, we went with it. Our guide, Miumyu, turned out to be very personable with good English and kept to her schedule. And, the tour of the silk factory and the tea ceremony were interesting with no pressure at all to buy, which we didn't (although our friends bought a silk blanket that makes into a pillow for 250). The ride down from the Wall in the sleds was fun too and totally seemed safer to me than the old ski-lift they were using - at least you're on the ground so you can't fall.

Other than all the amazing sites, the things that stood out the most for me were:
- how there are not thousands of accidents a day on their road system - we saw only 2 but I was sure our taxi was going to hit another car at least 5 times on each ride. We were all amazed at the avoidance skill of the drivers;

- the amount of air pollution - some days you could see the mountains around Beijing, but most days you couldn't see the building next to us. I don't understand how the government doesn't understand that unless this is brought under control, the people of China will start dropping like flies from cancer, emphysema, etc. And the worst pollution wasn't in Beijing but in Xi'an where we all got sore throats and headaches for the unbelievable air pollution levels. The more frightening thing is that supposedly the month of October is the month with the best air quality. Anyone with an existing respiratory condition should think twice about visiting China;

- the neglect of the treasures of China. Wherever we went, whether to monuments or gardens, there were weeds throughout the gardens and damage to the structures. One would think that the government would care more about the historical foundations of China. Mind you, the new China is much worse off. The level of quality of buildings seems to be way below North American/European standards and reminded all of us more of Mexico than Canada. I can't imagine any of the new buildings being around more than 50 years, never mind 500 years;

- what's with the price of tea in restaurants? For example, the first meal we had was Peking Duck at Made in China and tea for the four of us. The duck was 285 and the tea was 240! And this was repeated at pretty well any restaurant we ate at, whether in a hotel or a stand alone restaurant. Any time I've had dim sum or other chinese meals here in Canada, tea is usually either part of the meal or a couple of bucks a person. Is tea in China like popcorn here at the movies - where the theatre makes all of its profits from the popcorn/drinks;

- we only got ripped off by taxis twice, once on the way from the Ancient Observatory to the Lama Temple which should have only cost around 15 but near our destination, the driver blocked the view of the person in the front seat and when he looked again, the price had jumped from 16 to 28 in 2 blocks and the second time was to the train station for the hs rail to Hangzhou, where one taxi was 30 and the other was 60. What are you going to do, so we chilled and used it as something to talk about. Good entertainment for a couple of dollars. ;

- the Hilton Wangfujing was amazing. Although only a gold member, they upgraded me and our traveling companions, who have no status with Hilton. The rooms were outstanding, with views of the Forbidden City, huge bathrooms, very comfortable king beds and not a wiff of cigarette smoke in the entire hotel. They also gave me lounge access and allowed our friends to join us for breakfast in the lounge for free - they asked and access per day was 600 for them. Also, after leaving, my friend realised that he had left his noise cancelling headphones in his room. I contacted the lounge attendant and she couriered them to us at the next Hilton we stayed at in Xi'an. All in all, if the HIltons in the US or Canada were even remotely close to this one in luxury of the rooms, food in the lounge and service, I don't think I'd stay anywhere else.

Hangzhou - our stay here was for 2 nights/3 days but we should have stayed longer, 3 or even 4 nights, as we all enjoyed our stay immensely. We stayed at the Hyatt on the lake and it rivaled the Hilton for the quality of its rooms, had a slightly less impressive breakfast but, although I'm only Platinum with Hyatt, they upgraded both rooms and gave all of us lounge access. I can't remember ever getting lounge access as a platinum member before. We spent one whole day wandering around the lake and the other seeing Quyuan Garden and exploring the Qinghefang Old Street area. The fountain show on the lake was right outside our hotel and we watched it a couple of times. It was quite enjoyable. The other thing we all liked was the many public displays of music, dancing, etc. All around the lake, we saw groups of people dancing, singing, playing instruments, etc. - it looked like just random people would come and perform, not organised concerts or shows at all. Also, the level of air pollution was very low here which made staying here more enjoyable.

Shanghai - we stayed here for 3 nights and we all agreed that it was our least favourite place. It was just too much a big city without a lot of interesting sites to visit. If anyone asked me, I would recommend only a short visit to see the Shanghai Museum and to wander around the Bund/French Concession area, maybe even just a day trip for Shanghai. We stayed at Le Royal Meridien and I upgraded both rooms to the club floor with lounge access - which in my mind is a great deal for only 4k points per day per room. Mind you, I wanted to upgrade to an Imperial Suite on the 63rd floor for 12k points a day but I was outvoted by my wife who wants to keep points for Italy next year. The rooms were much smaller than the first two hotels we stayed in but were still very comfortable with luxurious touches.

Xi'an - we were really torn about our stay here. The level of air pollution was so extreme during our visit that we all suffered. I have never seen such unbelievable air pollution. We visited the Big Goose Pagoda, Watch and Bell Towers (outside only), walked the old city wall and explored the Muslim Quarter. Of course, we also took a tour to the Warriors, which my friend and I both thought were amazing but our wives were totally underwhelmed. Is this a guy thing only? Here we stayed at the Hilton and we were all upgraded to lounge access. Again, another outstanding hotel which makes the Hiltons in North America look sick by comparison.

Yangshuo - we all loved it and thought this was the place we should have stayed the longest. We could have easily spent 5 or 6 days here. But, we didn't. c'est la vie. We stayed at the Yangshuo Village Retreat and loved it. We had booked their 2 bedroom "penthouse" suite which turned out to be on the 5th floor and an immense unit, probably over 150 m2. When I saw the 4 flights of stairs and then looked at our mountain of luggage, I got a sore back just thinking about it. But, the staff waved us away and said they'd deliver it. We went to pick up some of the small hand luggage but they looked like we'd insulted them and shooed us away.

The suite was filled with the most ugly furniture and tons of empty space but the master suite had a huge bed, and an en suite bathroom with a steam shower, a jacuzzi tub and a shower while there was a separate bathroom with shower for the other bedroom, but not en suite. The food was excellent and reasonable and the service was outstanding. I had decided to see if we could do a Yulong River raft tour on the way from Guilin to the hotel on the day we left Xi'an so I sent an email from our ipad but didn't get a reply before we had to board the plane. When we landed, the driver, who couldn't speak english, handed me his cell phone and the person from the hotel confirmed that we could do the raft tour if we still wanted and the price was 250/raft - 2 people on a raft. We did and loved it, the weather was perfect, the trip was amazing and we just felt ourselves getting more relaxed and happier by the minute. What a great decision!

While in Yangshuo, we also climbed Moon Hill - which made climbing the Wall seem like a stroll in the park - but was totally worth it for the amazing views, toured Silver Cave, which was totally not worth it, saw the river light show, which was totally enjoyable and worth it at 350 per person including transportation for the vip seats - everyone gets a bottle of water so you don't have to bring any with you. On the way back from Moon Hill, we asked the driver to drop us off in town and we wandered around for a couple of hours, taking pictures and buying some souvenirs, before walking the km or so back to the hotel. All in all, we loved our stay and the whole stay, including tours, meals, several taxis, river cruises and accomodation cost us less than 3000.

Hong Kong - Our final stop in China we visited twice, once when we arrived from Guilin and a second time when we did a day trip to Macau, where we got lucky at the Wynn casino. We stayed at the Inter Continental, with a view of Hong Kong Island, which was quite impressive especially at night for the light show. We had 2 full days and half a day in Hong Kong before we had to go to the airport, along with the day trip to Macau. We enjoyed the bus ride up and the tram ride down the Peak, especially the bus ride - I can't believe how close the bus gets to both the trees on one side and the traffic on the other, just unbelievable. We also did a day excursion to Stanley, passing Repulse Bay which we all agreed we should have taken time to check out as it looked gorgeous. Stanley was definitely worth visiting. We also enjoyed wandering up Nathan and Granville for some shopping and people watching.

Transportation -
Train - we took the high speed train from Beijing to Hangzhou and from Hangzhou to Shanghai, both times great with no issues, tickets easily bought by the hotel, easy getting on the train even with the crush of non-queuing Chinese, trains on time almost to the second. In my opinion, the first choice for inter-city travel in China.

Air - we flew between Shanghai and Xi'an on China Eastern, between Xi'an and Guilin on China Southern and between Guilin and Hong Kong, through Xiamen, on Xiamen Air. Of the three, we left 30 min. late from Shanghai, 5 min. late from Xi'an and on time from Guilin and 20 min late from Xiamen. They were all relatively similar but I thought the best service and cleanest planes were on Xiamen Air. I'm not sure why but at each hotel, when we asked about how early to get to the airport for our flights, they all said to be there at least 2 hours early, 3 hrs being better. Each time, we took their advice and ended up sitting around for 2 hours once we checked our bags and cleared security. I also made my one big oops by leaving my Diners card at home when I was emptying out my wallet. There are lounges at Shanghai, Xi'an and Guilin that I could have accessed with it but as a gold star alliance member, I had nothing. So, don't leave home without it, if you've got one.

So, we had an amazing adventure in China and I think that a large part of our enjoyment was due to the advice and help from all of you kind people here on the China board. Thank you again.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 4:31 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by greatwhitenorth
Well, we just got back from our 3 week trip through China ...
Thank You for sharing such a comprehensive report of your trip. I am trying to organize a similar trip to yours now.
If you were to choose for 3-4 nights Hangzhou vs Yangshuo which one would you choose?

Last edited by ellylex; Aug 23, 2013 at 4:57 pm
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