Using Credit Cards in China - The Great CC Rip Off (dynamic currency conversion)
#16
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 41,825
As long as you have enough USD income to cover expenses, it makes sense to use Schwab everywhere.
#17
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: BWI
Programs: LH M&M, CX MPC Green
Posts: 1,757
Very interesting, I never knew about this. Although I have been billed and signed in foreign currency, the exchange rate has been pretty approximate (plus minus 5% - which in big bills can be a lot). Thankfully I don't do big transactions in the PRC with a credit card (unless its a big hotel), but this is great to know.
#18
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
Rules for Visa Merchants
(DCC) Compliance at the Point of Sale
-fully disclose to the cardholder DCC is optional
-communication to the cardholder in their local language or in English as the default.
-there must be a clear statement that the cardholder recognizes that he or she has been given a choice of currencies.
-there needs to be a clear statement acknowledging that the cardholder's choice of currency is final.
- MCC merchant must NOT use any contractual or procedures that result in the cardholder choosing DCC transaction by default. The merchant must inform the cardholder that the service is optional.
If the the cardholder was not properly advised of their options, this is grounds for a dispute and chargeback.^
(DCC) Compliance at the Point of Sale
-fully disclose to the cardholder DCC is optional
-communication to the cardholder in their local language or in English as the default.
-there must be a clear statement that the cardholder recognizes that he or she has been given a choice of currencies.
-there needs to be a clear statement acknowledging that the cardholder's choice of currency is final.
- MCC merchant must NOT use any contractual or procedures that result in the cardholder choosing DCC transaction by default. The merchant must inform the cardholder that the service is optional.
If the the cardholder was not properly advised of their options, this is grounds for a dispute and chargeback.^
#19
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast USA
Programs: various
Posts: 6,710
If they pull that on you without disclosing such, they're in deep doo-doo once you escalate things (i.e. you have grounds to execute a complete chargeback unless they play nice).
As long as you have enough USD income to cover expenses, it makes sense to use Schwab everywhere.
As long as you have enough USD income to cover expenses, it makes sense to use Schwab everywhere.
Frankly, I haven't found that it does any good to go on and on with them about how MC, Visa, etc. don't permit them to do this per their merchants' agreements. They'll just laugh and do what they want to anyway--this is developing Asia. As an individual, I don't have an effective club to stop this practice. The one time I tried to get a receipt that identified separately the base price and the cc surcharge, then followed up and tried to get a chargeback from the card-issuing bank, it was a big hassle and huge waste of time, as in the end they refused anyway. Not to mention expensive intl long distance phone call to try to pursue this. The after-the-fact chargeback strategy might work for those of you who are mostly travelling and spend a lot of time back in your home bank countries where you can straighten this out more easily, but it doesn't work for me. It's just easier to pay cash.
The DCC issue is a separate one entirely.
#20
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
Technically merchants are not supposed to add a surcharge for credit card processing unless its a non face-to-face transaction and a convenience fee
can be added. However merchants margin may necessitate adding a fee
and if fully disclosed than its up to the cardholder to decide whether or not to make the transaction.
DCC is different, its a deceitful practice with the end result cheating the customer out of their money. Its akin to banks charging fees on debit card transactions that result in a negative balance.
can be added. However merchants margin may necessitate adding a fee
and if fully disclosed than its up to the cardholder to decide whether or not to make the transaction.
DCC is different, its a deceitful practice with the end result cheating the customer out of their money. Its akin to banks charging fees on debit card transactions that result in a negative balance.
#21
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 41,825
Update from the trenches
I've used my credit card at ~40 establishments in China during the past several weeks, and 3 have tried to pull DCC on me:
-Mint
-Muse
-JW Marriott
In all 3 cases, I've adopted the same strategy:
1) tell them to bill me in RMB
2) when they refuse, cross off the USD amount and write something like this: "I will decline this purchase unless billed in RMB"
3) only the JW noticed #2 and the GM stopped by my table to bring me a RMB slip and inform me that he would train his staff about DCC
Bottom line:
-while arguing over $5 in a place like Mint might embarrass some of you, it's my pleasure to help correct this problem
-if nobody steps up to the plate, this disease will become more widespread
-shame on Visa for allowing things to play out this way
-Mint
-Muse
-JW Marriott
In all 3 cases, I've adopted the same strategy:
1) tell them to bill me in RMB
2) when they refuse, cross off the USD amount and write something like this: "I will decline this purchase unless billed in RMB"
3) only the JW noticed #2 and the GM stopped by my table to bring me a RMB slip and inform me that he would train his staff about DCC
Bottom line:
-while arguing over $5 in a place like Mint might embarrass some of you, it's my pleasure to help correct this problem
-if nobody steps up to the plate, this disease will become more widespread
-shame on Visa for allowing things to play out this way
#22
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: PEK & MKE
Programs: Amex-gold, Hainan-gold, Mrt-LT Titanium
Posts: 1,351
I've used my credit card at ~40 establishments in China during the past several weeks, and 3 have tried to pull DCC on me:
-Mint
-Muse
-JW Marriott
In all 3 cases, I've adopted the same strategy:
1) tell them to bill me in RMB
2) when they refuse, cross off the USD amount and write something like this: "I will decline this purchase unless billed in RMB"
3) only the JW noticed #2 and the GM stopped by my table to bring me a RMB slip and inform me that he would train his staff about DCC
Bottom line:
-while arguing over $5 in a place like Mint might embarrass some of you, it's my pleasure to help correct this problem
-if nobody steps up to the plate, this disease will become more widespread
-shame on Visa for allowing things to play out this way
-Mint
-Muse
-JW Marriott
In all 3 cases, I've adopted the same strategy:
1) tell them to bill me in RMB
2) when they refuse, cross off the USD amount and write something like this: "I will decline this purchase unless billed in RMB"
3) only the JW noticed #2 and the GM stopped by my table to bring me a RMB slip and inform me that he would train his staff about DCC
Bottom line:
-while arguing over $5 in a place like Mint might embarrass some of you, it's my pleasure to help correct this problem
-if nobody steps up to the plate, this disease will become more widespread
-shame on Visa for allowing things to play out this way
#23
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
#25
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
During my recent trip to Shanghai, I have found that the dynamic currency conversion scam prevelant among high end establishments. Since I think a special place in hell needs to be reserved for establishments who scam their paying customers, I am going to list some of them here:
M on the bund;
Jade Garden, all branches incl. Paradise Garden;
Crystal Jade in XTD;
Le Royal Meridian hotel;
M on the bund;
Jade Garden, all branches incl. Paradise Garden;
Crystal Jade in XTD;
Le Royal Meridian hotel;
I don't know what we're doing and right and you're doing wrong. I can only report that we didn't encounter the DCC scam at all.
#28
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 41,825
My most recent battle is with travelzen.com. These guys mandate DCC and there is no workaround.
#29
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
#30
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 41,825
FYI, "xiaojie" is now a taboo word. Especially in the north, you should use 服务员 or 美女. And, with regards to Ptravel's wife, we should be even more respectful.
Back on topic, Ptravel will also encounter DCC during his next trip.
Back on topic, Ptravel will also encounter DCC during his next trip.