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Using Credit Cards in China - The Great CC Rip Off (dynamic currency conversion)

Using Credit Cards in China - The Great CC Rip Off (dynamic currency conversion)

Old Jan 1, 2010, 3:48 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by jiejie
Many if not most merchants here charge extra 3-5% just for using a foreign credit card.
If they pull that on you without disclosing such, they're in deep doo-doo once you escalate things (i.e. you have grounds to execute a complete chargeback unless they play nice).

As long as you have enough USD income to cover expenses, it makes sense to use Schwab everywhere.
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Old Jan 1, 2010, 8:18 am
  #17  
 
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Very interesting, I never knew about this. Although I have been billed and signed in foreign currency, the exchange rate has been pretty approximate (plus minus 5% - which in big bills can be a lot). Thankfully I don't do big transactions in the PRC with a credit card (unless its a big hotel), but this is great to know.
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Old Jan 1, 2010, 10:52 am
  #18  
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Rules for Visa Merchants
(DCC) Compliance at the Point of Sale

-fully disclose to the cardholder DCC is optional

-communication to the cardholder in their local language or in English as the default.

-there must be a clear statement that the cardholder recognizes that he or she has been given a choice of currencies.

-there needs to be a clear statement acknowledging that the cardholder's choice of currency is final.

- MCC merchant must NOT use any contractual or procedures that result in the cardholder choosing DCC transaction by default. The merchant must inform the cardholder that the service is optional.


If the the cardholder was not properly advised of their options, this is grounds for a dispute and chargeback
.^
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Old Jan 1, 2010, 8:18 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by moondog
If they pull that on you without disclosing such, they're in deep doo-doo once you escalate things (i.e. you have grounds to execute a complete chargeback unless they play nice).

As long as you have enough USD income to cover expenses, it makes sense to use Schwab everywhere.
Well, whenever merchants are going to surcharge, they've always been very upfront about it before the transaction takes place...both in China and elsewhere in Asia (mostly SE Asia) where they do this. So it's not been an issue of sneakiness or attempted skullduggery. The ball is placed in my court to decide whether to use the foreign cc and pay the surcharge...or pay cash and avoid...or walk from the transaction entirely.

Frankly, I haven't found that it does any good to go on and on with them about how MC, Visa, etc. don't permit them to do this per their merchants' agreements. They'll just laugh and do what they want to anyway--this is developing Asia. As an individual, I don't have an effective club to stop this practice. The one time I tried to get a receipt that identified separately the base price and the cc surcharge, then followed up and tried to get a chargeback from the card-issuing bank, it was a big hassle and huge waste of time, as in the end they refused anyway. Not to mention expensive intl long distance phone call to try to pursue this. The after-the-fact chargeback strategy might work for those of you who are mostly travelling and spend a lot of time back in your home bank countries where you can straighten this out more easily, but it doesn't work for me. It's just easier to pay cash.

The DCC issue is a separate one entirely.
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Old Jan 1, 2010, 11:36 pm
  #20  
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Technically merchants are not supposed to add a surcharge for credit card processing unless its a non face-to-face transaction and a convenience fee
can be added. However merchants margin may necessitate adding a fee
and if fully disclosed than its up to the cardholder to decide whether or not to make the transaction.

DCC is different, its a deceitful practice with the end result cheating the customer out of their money. Its akin to banks charging fees on debit card transactions that result in a negative balance.
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 12:20 am
  #21  
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Update from the trenches

I've used my credit card at ~40 establishments in China during the past several weeks, and 3 have tried to pull DCC on me:

-Mint
-Muse
-JW Marriott

In all 3 cases, I've adopted the same strategy:

1) tell them to bill me in RMB
2) when they refuse, cross off the USD amount and write something like this: "I will decline this purchase unless billed in RMB"
3) only the JW noticed #2 and the GM stopped by my table to bring me a RMB slip and inform me that he would train his staff about DCC

Bottom line:
-while arguing over $5 in a place like Mint might embarrass some of you, it's my pleasure to help correct this problem
-if nobody steps up to the plate, this disease will become more widespread
-shame on Visa for allowing things to play out this way
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 5:21 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by moondog
I've used my credit card at ~40 establishments in China during the past several weeks, and 3 have tried to pull DCC on me:

-Mint
-Muse
-JW Marriott

In all 3 cases, I've adopted the same strategy:

1) tell them to bill me in RMB
2) when they refuse, cross off the USD amount and write something like this: "I will decline this purchase unless billed in RMB"
3) only the JW noticed #2 and the GM stopped by my table to bring me a RMB slip and inform me that he would train his staff about DCC

Bottom line:
-while arguing over $5 in a place like Mint might embarrass some of you, it's my pleasure to help correct this problem
-if nobody steps up to the plate, this disease will become more widespread
-shame on Visa for allowing things to play out this way
Thanks for this, I also did notice it on my Marriott stay, & used my Chase Marriott Visa card, so when it arrives, i will see what they will do, & now have a plan for the next China trip on this DCC issue
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 10:21 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by moondog

Bottom line:
-while arguing over $5 in a place like Mint might embarrass some of you,
M1NT
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 11:52 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
M1NT
If any of you come to SH, I can arrange to get you into Mint. However, aside from the view, it's nothing special; you're better off getting your $10 beers some place else (such as Velvet).
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 12:15 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by moondog
If any of you come to SH, I can arrange to get you into Mint. However, aside from the view, it's nothing special; you're better off getting your $10 beers some place else (such as Velvet).
Bottle Service: Johnnie Walker Blue with Ice green tea^
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 1:30 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
Bottle Service: Johnnie Walker Blue with Ice green tea^
Red is where the heart is.
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 1:50 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mntblue
During my recent trip to Shanghai, I have found that the dynamic currency conversion scam prevelant among high end establishments. Since I think a special place in hell needs to be reserved for establishments who scam their paying customers, I am going to list some of them here:

M on the bund;
Jade Garden, all branches incl. Paradise Garden;
Crystal Jade in XTD;
Le Royal Meridian hotel;
We ate at Jade Garden (the one near the Jin Jiang hotel) in early January, paid with our credit card and were charged in RMB -- no DCC scam there. We also ate in a variety of high-end restaurants in Shanghai, e.g. Ye Shanghai, as well as high-end restaurants in Guangzhou and Suzhou throughout our nearly one-month stay, and never encountered the DCC scam.

I don't know what we're doing and right and you're doing wrong. I can only report that we didn't encounter the DCC scam at all.
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 1:59 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by PTravel
I don't know what we're doing and right and you're doing wrong. I can only report that we didn't encounter the DCC scam at all.
Like I said upthread, I am 3/40, which is just shy of 2%. This means that the bad eggs are out there, but they haven't spoiled the party yet.

My most recent battle is with travelzen.com. These guys mandate DCC and there is no workaround.
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 8:28 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by PTravel
I don't know what we're doing and right and you're doing wrong. I can only report that we didn't encounter the DCC scam at all.
I think it might have to do with traveling with dongbei xiaojie.
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Old Mar 20, 2010, 11:01 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
I think it might have to do with traveling with dongbei xiaojie.
FYI, "xiaojie" is now a taboo word. Especially in the north, you should use 服务员 or 美女. And, with regards to Ptravel's wife, we should be even more respectful.

Back on topic, Ptravel will also encounter DCC during his next trip.
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