redheadtempe33

An opportunity has opened up within my company, and I'm seriously considering it. The office is in a suburb of Chicago, Northbrook. I have visited Chicago many times, and have always had a good time, and left with a good impression of the city.

And yes, I have seen the thread about the murders in Chicago. Not to sound like a snob, but it appears that the vast majority of these murders take place in south Chicago, and I am ruling that out as a possible place to leave. Yes, shootings can happen anywhere but, after 12 years in Phoenix, I am willing to risk it.

Couple of questions ...

I am looking at Lakeview as far as apartments go. How is it? I am a single guy, and quality is more important to me that space. Two bedrooms/1 bath is plenty. $1200 a month reasonable?

I would really, really, prefer to not bring a car. A big part of my dislike of Phoenix is you have to drive everywhere. I have taken the L as a tourist around town, from the airport, etc. How is it on an everyday basis? How do you go grocery shopping? From what I can see, Lakeview to Northbrook is do-able by bus/L/train, but it does not appear to be quick. Can I realistically get around without a car?

Anything you would tell new residents? Have I lost my mind? Did anything shock you when you moved there? In Phoenix for example, my utilities and car insurance doubled (from Iowa). Food (especially fruit/veggies) are dirt cheap.

I would add that the weather is not a deterrent for me. Indeed, a big part it, is I really do miss the snow and the green in the summer (I have lived in Colorado and Iowa).

It'sHip2B^2

Taxes in IL are pretty awful. Personal income tax is 5.5% right now (recently raised from 3%). Property tax is high. Sales tax is high (6.25% state plus local taxes all in upwards of 9% in some places). The state government is operating in huge deficit. A few years ago (and maybe now) they couldn't pay their bills. They were issuing IOUs instead.

These are things that you should consider before accepting the job. You really don't want to show up and find out that you are worse off.

Kagehitokiri

have you talked to enviroian (doing that move) yet?

redheadtempe33

Taxes are not something I considered. Thank you. Though ... sales taxes are higher in Phoenix (9.01% vs. 8 and change in Chicago), though is appears income tax rates are definitely higher in IL. The rates do impact any COL increase I may receive.

Speaking of taxes ... how much does a pack of cigarettes go for in Chicago?

uastarflyer

Unless right in downtown I wouldn't try it without a car. It isn't like PHX or LA where everything is a 20 min drive, but it isn't Manhattan either.

With US departing *A might as well leave PHX.

nerd

I spent most of my 20's in Chicago - left there about 10 years ago. My thoughts:
Wrigleyville/Lakeview/Lincoln Park - there's not a huge variation in neighborhoods (the South half of Lincoln Park being the most expensive of the 3). All have plenty of young people/restaurants/bars/etc. A 2BR for $1,200 will be a stretch - there will be a large compromise in terms of the quality of the building or the location relative to transit.

The commute to Northbrook will be a real challenge on the El/Metra. You can get around Chicago without a car, e.g. for grocery shopping, but it can make it a bit more difficult, depending on where you might live in Lakeview relative to the grocery store. Lakeview's not small - living near Clark/Broadway is different from being west near Southport (I'm not expressing a preference for either one).

Other than that, Chicago is a great town and can be a whole lot of fun.

blort

The only way I see you pulling this off is if you can walk to your office from the train station (or your employer provides a shuttle) and you live somewhere like Logan Square, which lets you walk to the Healy station on Metra's Milwaukee District North line.

Realistically, that scenario puts you at a commute of about an hour door-to-door, each way. Living in Lakeview and taking public transportation increases that by at least 50% and introduces the bus variable, which means there will be times you miss the train and are late to work.

I've done a reverse commute for about a decade in both Chicago and NYC. Trust me when I say that your sanity depends on keeping it as simple as possible. Travel and/or the ability to work from home once in a while helps a lot.

Oh, and groceries: http://www.peapod.com/

ILuvParis

You can easily live all over the city without a car (though I wouldn't want to), especially in Lakeview, but I certainly wouldn't work in Northbrook without one.

gfunkdave

As a native Chicagoan, I am in full agreement with everything said so far.

If you're working in Northbrook, your commute will be A LOT less hellish if you don't live in Lakeview. Slogging your way through traffic for at least an hour twice a day will be enough to drive you to insanity. I strongly recommend living somewhere closer - like Evanston.

Evanston (home to Northwestern University) will result in a 30ish minute commute to Northbrook. It's a suburb, yes, but it's also the first suburb outside of Chicago (the southern border of Evanston is the northern city limit of Chicago). It's also kind of a fake city with a walkable downtown that has a lot of nice restaurants, bars, stores, etc. The El and Metra run into Evanston, so it's easy to get into Lakeview if you want to go drinking and not drive home. City taxis also will take you to/from Evanston easily. In other words, there's plenty to do if you want to stay in Evanston, and it's easy to get to the places you want to be in the city. It's quiet and pretty (right on the lake). There's also the college town aspect.

If you do decide to go with Lakeview, I'd err on the side of living in west Lakeview so you're closer to the highway and don't have to deal with city traffic just to get on the highway and sit in traffic there. And there are lots of other neighborhoods that are great (and that I'd personally prefer to Lakeview) along the highway.

If you're interested in learning more, PM me (or I guess posting on here would be better so everyone sees). I lived in Evanston for three years in grad school. I've also lived in Lincoln Park and the South Loop and grew up in the area.

ILuvParis

Good ideas - Evanston is the best place for suburban life and still be close to the city. Another option and the hot place to live now is the West Loop. It's just a couple blocks to I94 (Edens to Northbrook).

milepig

Northbrook DOES NOT equal Chicago. Almost a different state. I cannot imagine living in Chicago and commuting to Northbrook. You'll spend more time on the road than actually living.

ILuvParis

Well, it would beat LIVING in Northbrook.

glg

I live in Lake View and I honestly wouldn't even consider a job in Northbrook due to the commute. The reverse commute traffic is pretty bad, as there a lot of jobs in Northbrook/Glenview/Deerfield/etc filled by younger people who want to live in the city.

Adding on to what others have said. Getting to Northbrook from Lake View either by transit or car won't be pretty. For transit the single biggest question is how close the office in Northbrook is to some Metra station. The Northbrook station is downtown, which is not where a lot of the big office buildings are. Most of those are the Edens. If your company has a shuttle from a Metra station, you can make that work. It'd be even better if they had a shuttle from Glencoe or Braeside on the UP-N line because that is a lot easier to get to. So, where is your office?

I will also echo what nerd said, at $1200/month for a 2BR/1BA, you'll be compromising something. You might be better off trying to find a large 1BR at that price. But, depending on the office part, there might be some better locations we could suggest. eg, if UP-N is an option, I'd suggest Lincoln Square or Andersonville close to the Ravenswood stop.

redheadtempe33

Thank you both for the suggestions. I will look into Evanston. I currently live in a suburban college town and do like it. I didn’t have my heart set on the Lakeview neighborhood – it just looked nice. The West Loop neighborhood looks a little too close to the "fun" that Chicago has been experiencing over the past two years, but perhaps I am being paranoid? It does appear to be much closer to the city, which is what I was aiming for.

It does appear that having a car, while perhaps not absolutely necessary, it going to make life much easier, which is fine.

I do find it interesting that hour long commutes are described as “hellish” and “unbearable” though. In Phoenix and Denver (and I would imagine in LA and San Francisco), they aren’t that unusual (though of course, that is part of the reason I want to get out of here). Right now I have a 15 mile, 30-40 minute commute each way, which isn’t horrible, but is about my limit.

What other neighborhoods would you recommend I look at? If I will be driving, I’m thinking somewhere halfway between Chicago and Northbrook?

It is right off the 294 and Sanders Road by Citation Lake. Appears to be across town from the station (though there is an employer shuttle).

M60_to_LGA

Some thoughts from a native Chicagoan (grew up in Highland Park, which is directly north of Northbrook, and lived for years in Lakeview):

You can live in Chicago without a car. I did for almost 10 years. If you live near the Red or Blue lines, they run 24/7, as do many of the main bus routes. In my experience, owning a car in Chicago is expensive and frustrating. However, most transplants to Chicago own cars - as far as I can tell, because they grew up with cars in some suburb somewhere and are bizarrely incapable of giving up the crutch. If you really need to buy three tons of toilet paper at one go, Zipcar is very easy and far more economical than paying for gas, insurance, etc.

Lakeview is a decent neighborhood, although it's become much blander than it used to be, as has much of the North Side. It's now pretty much indistinguishable from Lincoln Park and Bucktown - home to frat bros and woo girls from Big 10 and Midwest state schools, who spend their time shopping at big-box stores, getting plastered at sports bars, and eating at mediocre Mexican restaurants with margarita specials. Even the gay bars (Lakeview was once known as Boystown before the Bro Invasion of the late 90s) are generally lame.

Other (and cheaper) neighborhood options would be Ravenswood or Roscoe Village, which are both a bit west of Lakeview and haven't totally turned frat yet. Edgewater (which also includes Andersonville) is pretty cool as well and more convenient to north suburban commutes. All these neighborhoods still have their local character intact to varying degrees, with a nice mix of local businesses and places to hang out, but without attracting every douchebro in the Midwest. Edgewater is also right by the lake, with great beach and park access for biking, running, volleyball, etc. You can probably find a very nice two-bedroom for $1200 or less in these areas.

As has already been mentioned upthread, Evanston is a pretty cool city as well, although in my opinion if you're not a Northwestern student or a suburban empty nester, you may feel out of place. Also, it's more expensive than the neighborhoods I mentioned above for rent.

The West Loop/Near West Side to me feels very synthetic. Lots of new condo buildings and flash restaurants, but no feeling of a real neighborhood. It was very industrial until quite recently, and while convenient to the Loop feels very much like a soulless place. It's got kind of a rich dbag vibe to be honest - lots of 20/30-something bros working in finance, "day trading" etc. Also, I don't think there's much of a rental market in that area, except perhaps for people renting out luxury condos.

Crime in Chicago is, as you noted, highly concentrated in terms of both geography and demographic. In fact, the murder rate was much higher in the 1990s. I think the reasons Chicago's crime problem gets so much attention right now is that NY's rate has plunged, so Chicago's headline numbers look so much bigger. Exercise common sense, and you're likely to be fine.

The city-to-Northbrook commute sounds like a fate worse than death, but then again, so does living in Phoenix, and you seem to have survived. I know people who have done commutes like that using Metra and a shuttle, and they seem to do OK. That would be the one thing in your scenario that gives me pause, though.