benoit

OK it's not a plane but I thought I'd post this here anyway. Notice the knife is plastic, still quite deadly but supposedly good for evading scanners.
----

Passengers aboard an Amtrak train apparently took matters into their own hands Sunday when a man wielding a plastic knife threatened to kill them while screaming profanities against America.

According to arrest reports, passengers already had Gerardo Damien Bedia, 21, restrained in an upstairs compartment when Big Sandy Police Officer William Lakes arrived on the scene just before 8 p.m. Sunday.

Witnesses told police that Bedia, armed with a knife, made threats against other passengers and said that "all Americans will die."

Norman said the knife, described as a black all-plastic polymer folding knife, is typically used to defeat metal detectors.

The chief said Bedia apparently is a U.S. citizen and had Army identification.

According to officer statements, Bedia was screaming "I'll kill you," as well as profanities. He spoke in English as well as Spanish and "some kind of Middle Eastern language," the report states.


Passengers and train personnel were visibly shaken but no one was injured in the incident, Norman said. He said the passengers should be commended for restraining the suspect and compared them to the United Flight 93 passengers, who attempted to overtake their hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001.

Reports show that Bedia repeatedly tried to kick the officer and take his weapon before being placed in custody and later told Lakes he would "die from a bullet to the head."

edited from:

http://www.jacksonvilleprogress.com/...ews/news03.txt

tazi

I am surprised he only had a plastic knife. He could have brought whatever he wanted on the train. I took a train Thanksgiving day from BWI to NYC and there was absolutely no security at all. Not even ID checks.

Mook

Of course, if terrorists were to seize control of a train, they would have a hard time crashing it into a building.

And any attempted terrorist derailment would be much more likely to come from outside the train than from within.

Mandating airline-level security aboard Amtrak would be the height of folly.

Mook

------------------
The future of US domestic air travel:
"Please watch your head as you exit the aircraft."

tazi

What's to stop them from carrying a suitcase full of explosives and waiting until they stop at NYP to detonate it? There is a long stretch going over water just before leaving Maryland. I think an explosion in one of the cars could possibly lead to derailment and, in this area, it could be devastating.

I didn't suggest mandating airline level securit for Amtrak. Hell, I don't mandate what they are doing in airports as it is. But, I would think there might be reason to consider security 'enhancement' for rail travel.

Spiff

And this incident was on a train... but passengers still reacted.

This provides further evidence that the air marshal program should be scrapped and that the Great Search for Sharp and Pointy Objects at airports should be immediately terminated.

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

anonplz

It is encouraging, isn't it? And it does indeed support your assertions that passengers will fight back...

bdschobel

Train security is a pretty interesting subject. I have the option of riding Amtrak trains between my home in Princeton Junction, NJ, and my office in NYC. I do ride them several times a week (usually, I ride NJ Transit trains, which use the same tracks). The Amtrak trains on this route are almost always packed to the gills with at least 1000 passsengers each, often with so many people standing in the aisles that the conductors have trouble getting through to check tickets.

However, Amtrak does try -- most ineffectively -- to have a bit of security on some trains. My wife recently made a reservation for herself and our youngest son to travel to DC by train to visit her sister. My wife asked me to pick up the tickets when I arrived at Princeton Junction that evening. No problem -- or so I thought.

I get to the train station, go to the ticket window, give the Amtrak guy the reservation number and a credit card and ask for the tickets. He asks for a picture ID. I point out that I'm not the passenger; my wife and child are. Same last name; same address. He says that he needs a picture ID of a passenger. So my wife has to come to the train station herself to pick up the tickets, apparently.

I ask why. The Amtrak guy says that Amtrak needs to know who is traveling on their trains -- for SECURITY (that magic word). But no IDs are checked on the train, I say. I could buy a ticket in my name, showing my ID, then give my ticket to Osama bin Laden, and nobody would stop him, right? Well, yes, the Amtrak guy says, but we would know who bought the ticket. Oh, that's very important, I guess.

Not giving up, I asked how I could get these tickets without making my wife come to the train station (3 miles from our house). The Amtrak guy said to walk 10 feet over to the ticket vending machine in the station, enter the reservation number, swipe the credit card, and the tickets will print out. Sure enough, they did.

Is this silly, or what?

Bruce

essxjay

Oh, yeah. I always travel with plenty of dental floss. To wit:

Any reports of @ssholes trying to cut thru dental floss lately?? It's not only an incredible weapon for choking, but also for restraint at the hand-cuff/leg-cuff level... it's almost indestructible not to mention extremely effective.

NoStressHere

Thank you Bruce for the laugh. I am laughing so hard it hurts.

Just remember though, we checked ID. Here is a question for those that travel alot. How many times have you seen the ID checker even attempt to match the PICTURE to your FACE? My experience is they only want the names to match. So, in the experience above, Bruce should have brought his wifes ID.

Oops... forgot. I feel safer now.

anonplz

Remember Charlie's Angels or Boys From Brazil? You have it DOWN, essxjay!

[This message has been edited by anonplz (edited 01-09-2003).]

tazi

Yep! And those vending machines work like a charm. I thought they might check ID's before boarding or at least when they come through for tickets but they don't.

Spiff

It's sad to see this idiocy spreading to other forms of transportation. Can't wait until they start patting down people before they board a taxi or train...

------------------
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Mook

About as much as there is to stop that same person from simply walking in to NYP station and detonating it. In fact, for maximum impact, that's exactly what a determined terrorist would do. Shall we start mandating body-cavity checks for everyone walking up Fifth Avenue, then?

Again, the same effect could be achieved with minimal risk by setting up a timed explosive on the bridge.

Amen.

Did you mean to put "enhancement" in quotes? Because that's what 99 percent of what we have in airports these days boils down to. Not security, but the illusion thereof, to make Ma and Pa Kettle feel safer.

I can do without those sorts of "enhancements" elsewhere in my life, thank you very much.

Mook

------------------
The future of US domestic air travel:
"Please watch your head as you exit the aircraft."

Vaze

Bruce - That has to be the stupidest thing I've heard so far about "security" for travelers. On that subject does anyone know if the new "security" rules aimed at people arriving by air also apply to citizens coming into the states via bus or train? if not, then what's the point of them?

tazi

Good point. What the hell was I thinking!?!?