FlyingBeanCounter

I have a really strange incident I could use some guidance on.

I was returning from canada to detroit via the ambassador bridge. All four of us in the car had both GE and Nexus cards. Unfortunately, three of the four had not "activated" their cards. As a result, they sent us into some sort of hell in the middle of the bridge.

It is important to note at this point that I cleared passport control - just my co passengers did not.

Upon entering the facility it was like a prison. Surly guards screaming at people to sit down and leave them alone. I started asking questions and being assertive - what can it hurt I am a US Citizen right? Well they got really upset.

Finally, when I asked politely if I could speak to the shift supervisor they decided to detain me. I got the full treatment - physical assault, pat down, the works. Of course I was 100% compliant during the process. No point in inciting low intelligence people.

After about 15 minutes in their "holding cell" I got to speak to the supervisor. Interestingly enough, they apologized for the detainment and said that it should not have happened. They chastised me for being non compliant however and insinuated it was my fault that this happened.

At this point I am incensed. I am a US citizen and these people had zero right to do what they did. It seems that this is common at this crossing as many people in the facility told my fiance that it happens all the time when they are there.

I think I want to take this to the next level and start a complaint/lawsuit or whatever I need to do. It is horrible and inexcusable they would do that to a US citizen. It is even worse that they would bully people who cannot do anything for fear of rejection for their visa.

So, any suggestions what I can do here? I know I can file a complaint on the CBP site (I did) but I am sure that will end up being a dead end. I bet I get a generic appology and some sort of write up about how to be a better border crosser. I am curious what the next steps after that should be.

Carl Johnson

People here will give you as much help as they can, but this is certainly beyond my level of expertise. Go look at immigration forums and see what you can find out. It seems to me that this sort of thing can become a critical issue for a permanent resident, because there are ways for their status to get blown up. There are some categories of criminal convictions that can blow up PR status, but maybe there are also border crossing issues that can have that effect. So I think that on an immigration forum, you will find more experience and expertise, and also a great interest in your story and a desire to figure out the best way to deal with it. As a US citizen, you are invulnerable to threats to mess up your status, so if you're willing to put up with aggravation, an immigrant advocacy group might be able to help you start some sort of formal process.

FlyingBeanCounter

Thanks - any forums you know of that would work?

And I will tolerate a fair bit of nonsense over this situation. Government employees should not be allowed to treat someone that way.

You could feel the fear in the room. No one should have to live like that.

mromalley

The Ambassdor bridge crossing has always been a <deleted>. And I have heard anecdotally that border guards are getting more agressive with detaining US citizens.

I would start by contacting one or both Senators offices and your congressman/woman. You could also contact the Michigan ACLU http://www.aclumich.org

I would also write a point form description of what happened. Just the facts. no extraneous language. Also get the three other people to do the same. Include details, like are all of you US citizens? What was happenning with them as you were being detained, searched and confined?

Good Luck

mromalley

Or depending where you live, you could also contact one of the law schools, like U of M. But I think ACLU is a good option, if they don't want to take on the case, ask them for suggestions who to approach.

FlyingBeanCounter

OK, a few more points.

1. I asked the guy with the clipboard three times about stuff.
- I asked about US citizen priority (there is none).
- I asked about Global Entry/Nexus kiosks (none).
- I asked about getting to my car. Or I was going to when he erupted.

2. The supervisor indicated that "threat detection" was what drove that. Apparently a 46 year old guy in cargo shorts and Teva's is pretty big threat....

3. The other passengers were my fiance and her two small children.

4. At no point was I non-compliant.

5. I never saw the guards that initiated the contact again. They were pulled from the floor and sent somewhere.

6. We were all US citizens.


I did see the ACLU site. I will file a complaint with them. I also thought about the congressmen or senator. I live in Colorado but I suppose I could write to both Michigan and Colorado elected officials.

One interesting thing - the whole thing was caught on tape. Apparently they have tapes there and it is feasible to see them again should they be subpoenaed. I suppose they could "lose" the tapes. But even then there are witnesses.

yandosan

As a peek into what what you might be up against, check out "squidgate"
by Peter Watts, a sci-fi writer that questioned a guard as he was leaving
the US back into his native Canada. He got arrested and convicted of a felony for not getting into his car fast enough and asking why they needed to search a car that was leaving the US. He's a real nice guy and might even offer some advice if you contact him...
Also here's a link to an audio of Customs harassing and arresting a couple going shopping in Niagara...horrible stuff.

Boggie Dog

Could consider a DHS OIG complaint.

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/hotline

Allan38103

You have 435 elected Representatives, plus 100 elected Senators in Congress, all of whom are looking out for you. Pick any on of the 535.

FlyingBeanCounter

The OIG hotline is a great idea.

I just filed the complaint there as well. I realize I am probably punching a marshmallow but there is something about a situation where neanderthals with guns getting away with being bullies just rubs me wrong.

Any other ideas are welcome. The letter to the congress people (?) is in the works as well.

cafeconleche

Unless you're a constituent (and even if you are one in many cases), they're not going to pay attention to your complaint. So, there are 535 members of the legislature, but you generally have pull with only about 3 at a time,.

You can also contact the Rick Snyder, though he is also essentially a neanderthal.

Badenoch

The guy in that audio has only himself to blame. Argumentative, aggressive and obstructing is a bad strategy when dealing with the officials at the border of a country where you are neither citizen or resident.

Boggie Dog

I think the Aggressive and Argumentative badge can be awarded to the CBP agent.

FlyingBeanCounter

i don't know - it is cherished freedom to be able to express displeasure with the police. I am not inclined to do anything that would restrict that in any way.

This situation is a bit touchy because he was not a citizen nor a resident but in general I would say that the BPD and DHS in general needs to be able to take a ton of nonsense from people so long as they comply.

There is a HUGE difference between saying "I can't believe you facist pigs are making me do this" as one complies and "I will not comply". I generally see the former in most instances not the latter.

In the case of the video - it is a matter of interpretation. I would like to see the areas of doubt come down for the accused in that situation. I dont ever want to give DHS more authority than they need. They will abuse it with reckless abandon (Look at TSA and all the stuff that happens there).

Carl Johnson

Those are all words that corrupt or renegade police officers use to pretend they are giving reasons for an illegal arrest or other illegal conduct?

What does "argumentative" tell us about what the the traveler actually did? Does it convey any information about any physical movement, speech, or sound initiated by the traveler?

What does "aggressive" tell us about what the the traveler actually did? Does it convey any information about any physical movement, speech, or sound initiated by the traveler?

What does "obstructing" tell us about what the the traveler actually did? Does it convey any information about any physical movement, speech, or sound initiated by the traveler?

If I say someone was "argumentative," "aggressive," and "obstructing," tell me ANY information about ANY action they performed that led me to characterize their actions. ACTION THEY PERFORMED, not my opinion of it, or a value I attach to it, or want others to attach to it.

The agent is saying "this traveler did something, but I don't want to tell you what he did, and I decided I wanted to order him out of the car, and I know the law uses words like "argumentative, aggressive, and obstructing," so I am going to say his behavior can be characterized by those words.

Somewhere in the conversation they accused him of "threatening a Federal officer." I didn't listen to the whole video, but did he "threaten" to commit ANY ILLEGAL ACT?

I went to an immigration conference once and one of the speakers had a client coming in from Canada, I think, maybe he was driving him in, I forget. Anyway, they said to the client to go to some office and I think drove him over there, and then the attorney was going to drive over, and they said they wanted to drive his car over there, he said no, I'm a U.S. citizen there's no question about my right to be in the country. They said, we can pull you out. And he said, "if you think that's a prudent thing to do, that's what you should do." The head of the checkpoint came running out and said "Tywin!" ["Tywin" wasn't the speakers real name; I'm using a pseudonym], what are you doing, and he said ask them! They have no right to drive my car if I don't consent, etc. And the head of the checkpoint sent then back to wherever they were supposed to be and everything was OK after that.

This guy said the checkpoint booth people are generally young and don't have the sophistication to interpret subtleties of rules; they are given rules that are like flowcharts, sort of.

But the typical traveler doesn't know that; they expect the booth people to ask questions that make some kind of sense and are likely to be nonplussed when an agent asks them to specify the stores in which they are expecting to go shopping.

And of course, some of them are dishonest and corrupt, and pretend that any kind of questioning of what they said is a questioning of their authority and therefore a threat to the USA. But it's their job to actually protect the US, not to harass travelers who think (correctly) that the question they are being asked is stupid.

I think you do know, which is why you are uneasy about the agent's behavior. The agent knew as well. "Aggressive, argumentative, and obstructing," are not descriptive words. And then all this talk about protecting the USA and Canada. "My job is to protect my country, so I should be allowed to do anything I want."