notquiteaff

Maybe we can hope for a battery accident before departure. Footage of a pile of of burning bags on a cart getting towed towards an aircraft on the evening news/FB... no lives lost, but the point proven.

And yes, it might then lead to a complete ban.

Canarsie

Appeals Court Will Not Reinstate Trump’s Revised Travel BanWhat are the odds that this latest legal ruling will only bolster the argument of those who advocate a more widespread ban on electronics because it will not specifically discriminate against anyone?

rickg523

I seem to recall the rationale behind the ME ban was insufficient screening at the named airports.
Is the US saying the same thing about all airports in Europe. Because that's ludicrous. And if they're not claiming that, why the current distinction about which direction the plane is flying? They're clearly fearing mid air explosions. Why would they not propose the same rules for outbound flights? Why not domestic American flights?
I've experienced TSA and I've experienced French, German, Swiss, Dutch, and Italian security. No one's convincing me of TSA's superiority. Hardly.
What is this really about?

GUWonder

Not much, if at all. People already inclined to be active in supporting some such things find a narrative upon which to attach themselves. This would be no exception. Just as if the Supreme Court overturned the lower courts to support the Admin on the EO travel ban, the people already inclined to be active in supporting some such thing won't change that much either.

Much the same dynamic for those opposed.

wco81

Hmm, maybe someone will sue if they expand the ban.

That is how the travel ban case went to the courts in the first place.

Maybe some businesses which depend on their employees working on flights, being able to secure their laptops will sue that there's no basis for a blanket ban.

TownCar

Quite. I recently flew to the US, starting at NCL, connecting at LHR and DFW before flying onwards within the US.

Because I'm here for the long weekend, I brought a backpack on board with me full of camera gear (body + lenses), my drone, batteries for drone and camera, numerous cables, chargers etc.

At NCL, they took one look at it on the baggage scanner and pulled it to one side for a thorough manual inspection and explosives swab test on every bit.

I didn't have to re-clear security at LHR due to arriving on a domestic flight, but I had been selected by the TSA for additional security checks at the gate. This led to another full inspection of the bag, and a full pat-down of myself (so much for priority boarding - most of the plane was onboard by the time I was finished with this!).

And when I re-cleared security at DFW? Not a second glance at the bag - just straight through. I'm not sure the operator was even concentrating on the images, despite mine being full of opaque objects and lots of wires everywhere. Based on this and previous TSA experiences, it doesn't feel like the US is in any position to judge European airports as insecure.

NickP 1K

Noted, however without going OMNI on this thread we can't comment in detail- the current DHS leadership doesn't have the technical skills to make a correct assessment. I can say this as someone who worked with DHS on topics post 9/11 - there was a great enthusiasm to bring in subject matter experts (e.g. the body scanner debacle with Rapiscan opened the door on that). Lately though the technical thought process is getting over-ridden by a more rigid regiment and staffing I've seen with groups I had contact with has less and less people with wider skills sets to do risk assessment and truly know how these things impact aircraft safety.

beingme

This comment isn't really specific to the EU, but since I have some upcoming travel planned, I was doing some searches about travel security and came across this page:
https://export-compliance.ku.edu/encryption

With regard to travel with encrypted mobile devices, laptops and external hard drives which is allowed under a personal use exemption provided:

"The items you take with you must be under the “effective control of the traveler” AT ALL TIMES. This means the equipment, software, and data you take with you cannot be shipped as unaccompanied baggage. For example, you cannot stow external hard drives, flash drives, etc., in your checked baggage."

This seems to be in conflict with any ban on travelling with laptops in the cabin unless you remove internal disks and carry them on-board. Am I understanding that correctly?

TWA884

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MSY-MSP

That regulation/description is very common in many companies regarding the safeguarding of company data and assets. What you cited is an express prohibition on checking or having the laptop out of your control. They added the other devices as these are things that some people may forget about as being an asset that needs to be controlled the same way. This is one of the things that if implemented is going to be a major headache for many companies. Right now where I work is seriously considering a ban on travel corporate/personal outside of Canada, Mexico, Alaska and the lower 48 states. Basically, if a car/train is not an option for the individual then that travel will not be permitted. The powers that be where I work are very concerned about folks getting caught up in the ban and subjecting the company to large penalties for failure to maintain proper control of data/assets.

notquiteaff

The way I read the question, it was asking whether the checking of laptops with encryption software would be a violation of US export laws, not just company/university policy.

notquiteaff

Secretary Kelly was on CBS This Morning today.

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/homela...s-intel-leaks/

I'll save you six minutes: he was asked about the large device "ban". He said they are still looking at it and that there is no timeline. The interviewers didn't ask about concerns with batteries in the hold or theft/loss/damage concerns.

Boggie Dog

He must have been making the rounds. I'm fairly certain I saw him on Fox News too.

beingme

That was exactly my point. From reading that page, it seems that the US government is simultaneously requiring you to check in your laptop and requiring you not to check in your laptop. Providing it has encryption software, which everything does have these days.

studentff

It has frustrated me for ~16 years that various non-government and government institutions (civil liberties, business, universities, state governments, etc.) throw their full weight into fighting anything that has a whiff of discrimination based on religion or national origin, but the same US institutions are utterly silent about DHS policies that treat every US citizen/resident like crap.

Where was the outrage over the liquids ban, various touching by TSA, mistreatment of the disabled, mandatory body scans, electronics bans, etc.? Fighting these wrongs is left up to a few hardy individuals* who receive little or no institutional support and are left to using their own resources to defend us all.

Massive institutional resources are going to fight 2017 Travel Ban 2.0, which even with its faults, is structured to have zero effect on U.S. persons or persons with a presence in the US. Meanwhile we're on a path to being eventually forced to fly naked or in prison jumpsuits with no personal property allowed, but the big players won't stand against it as long as it's not discriminatory. What happened to fighting all mistreatment?

(*Thanks Sai. And thanks John Gilmore, Phil Mocek, John Brennan, and others I'm forgetting at the moment.)