Electronic devices ban Europe to the US [merged threads]
May 11, 2017, 1:30 pm
#256
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But let me ask one question: A mid-air explosion would obviously be tragic and result in hundreds of deaths. But are we stopping people carrying laptops on the street? In movie theaters? In hotels? How about Amtrak? Because if a terrorist blew up an explosive device under Penn Station, the catastrophe would dwarf that of a mid-air explosion.
Mike
Mike
Post 9/11, it was deemed paramount to provide planes with a level of security not imposed anywhere else. It wasn't because of the number of people on a plane that might die or the crowds at the airport that might get killed - it was because an airplane could be hijacked and turned into a human-guided missile.
The security theater wasn't really about hijacked planes or exploded planes - we'd had those before and we got on with our lives and our freedoms. After all, planes go down for other reasons: Valujet. Unless they timed their actions to be over a crowded metropolitan area, neither the underpants bomber nor the shoe bomber were going to take out more than a planeload of people - tragic, to be sure, but nothing like taking out a rock concert or a stadium or a crowded metropolitan area.
I think the risk of someone successfully taking over the cockpit and the plane is miniscule - not worthy of mention. If someone is clever enough to do it, nothing TSA is doing will prevent it (unless purely by accident). Statistically, it's probably about as likely as a mechanical fault or pilot error taking down a plane.
May 11, 2017, 1:34 pm
#257
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 825
I believe there is a threat caused by improvised explosive devices hidden in laptops and the like in their batteries or disguised like batteries. Now how big that threat is is the real question. Is it being inflated? I don't know. However, it seems to me that the implication of this is that they are trying to do a measured approach on the implementation of this ban to avoid crawl back later.
There is some support from IACO that indicates that the threat is real and they are trying to work through a world wide approach to dealing with issue. There is a balancing act that needs to be managed here.
There is some support from IACO that indicates that the threat is real and they are trying to work through a world wide approach to dealing with issue. There is a balancing act that needs to be managed here.
(Maybe the terrorists' real objective is to trigger another global recession? They may achieve it!)
May 11, 2017, 1:52 pm
#258
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,662
I read a story a while back where flying had become a case of donning a transparent jumpsuit, being hooked to a catheter, and being sedated on a flat board and loaded that way. I suspect that would work better than being stuck with one physical book on a flight.
Saying that a kindle is a threat...sure it is. And how much unscreened cargo are you taking? What will they do when a plane explodes due to something in the hold?
Saying that a kindle is a threat...sure it is. And how much unscreened cargo are you taking? What will they do when a plane explodes due to something in the hold?
May 11, 2017, 1:53 pm
#259
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The approach to this has shifted subtly over time, more, I suspect, because of potential business opportunities than because of reliable intel and thoughtful analysis.
Post 9/11, it was deemed paramount to provide planes with a level of security not imposed anywhere else. It wasn't because of the number of people on a plane that might die or the crowds at the airport that might get killed - it was because an airplane could be hijacked and turned into a human-guided missile.
The security theater wasn't really about hijacked planes or exploded planes - we'd had those before and we got on with our lives and our freedoms. After all, planes go down for other reasons: Valujet. Unless they timed their actions to be over a crowded metropolitan area, neither the underpants bomber nor the shoe bomber were going to take out more than a planeload of people - tragic, to be sure, but nothing like taking out a rock concert or a stadium or a crowded metropolitan area.
I think the risk of someone successfully taking over the cockpit and the plane is miniscule - not worthy of mention. If someone is clever enough to do it, nothing TSA is doing will prevent it (unless purely by accident). Statistically, it's probably about as likely as a mechanical fault or pilot error taking down a plane.
Post 9/11, it was deemed paramount to provide planes with a level of security not imposed anywhere else. It wasn't because of the number of people on a plane that might die or the crowds at the airport that might get killed - it was because an airplane could be hijacked and turned into a human-guided missile.
The security theater wasn't really about hijacked planes or exploded planes - we'd had those before and we got on with our lives and our freedoms. After all, planes go down for other reasons: Valujet. Unless they timed their actions to be over a crowded metropolitan area, neither the underpants bomber nor the shoe bomber were going to take out more than a planeload of people - tragic, to be sure, but nothing like taking out a rock concert or a stadium or a crowded metropolitan area.
I think the risk of someone successfully taking over the cockpit and the plane is miniscule - not worthy of mention. If someone is clever enough to do it, nothing TSA is doing will prevent it (unless purely by accident). Statistically, it's probably about as likely as a mechanical fault or pilot error taking down a plane.
May 11, 2017, 1:58 pm
#260
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,458
And if we are so concerned about protecting planes why are we putting those dangerous lithium batteries in the hold since the entire "safety" measure is that you take those OUT of your checked luggage and carry them on.
Theatre.... watch what we are doing to harass you so you won't see what other stupid things we are doing behind the curtain! Yes we are safer now then pre 9/11, but it's due to REAL law enforcement not "theater of harassment" conducted by the Thousands Standing Around and their friends!
Contact your elected officials and let them know that this is one of the all time stupid moves by agencies THEY fund!
Theatre.... watch what we are doing to harass you so you won't see what other stupid things we are doing behind the curtain! Yes we are safer now then pre 9/11, but it's due to REAL law enforcement not "theater of harassment" conducted by the Thousands Standing Around and their friends!
Contact your elected officials and let them know that this is one of the all time stupid moves by agencies THEY fund!
May 11, 2017, 2:09 pm
#262
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Smart terrorists know there's no reason to go to extreme lengths to get a bomb onto a plane. Just wheel a 30" suitcase stuffed with shrapnel and explosives into the airport and detonate it in a crowd. Do it on a very high travel day, like the day before Thanksgiving, when the airport will be absolutely packed with people. Ideally hit several airports, train stations, and bus stations simultaneously.
Can you imagine the panic that would result?
The terrorists we actually need to worry about are evil, not stupid. Underwear Bomber and his ilk are mostly noteworthy for their complete lack of success.
Can you imagine the panic that would result?
The terrorists we actually need to worry about are evil, not stupid. Underwear Bomber and his ilk are mostly noteworthy for their complete lack of success.
May 11, 2017, 2:10 pm
#263
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Looks like Rapiscan all over again.
More staffing (for TSA), more expensive equipment (if the checkpoint scanners can't detect a laptop bomb, what do they need behind the curtain to accomplish that), new equipment (explosion and fireproof containers for all those potential bombs in luggage), and of course course more fees (are effect of baggage fees on airline profits).
Throughout American history - all the way back to the Revolution - there have been more than enough Americans who are glad to use security and defense as a honeypot. Many of these Americans ( corporations are people too my friend) made so much money during the Cold War, they now have the clout to insure the government continues fill the slop trough for them.
May 11, 2017, 2:10 pm
#264
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,706
We really don't know that Asia isn't impacted. We really "know" very little. Some of the rumors/quotes I have seen have hinted at a broader impact than Europe. At this point I wouldn't bet on anything.
May 11, 2017, 2:13 pm
#265
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We're still hung up on a plane, not the number of victims. Post-911, understandably the focus was on airplanes. We created a new organization and approach that provided a huge new business opportunity - the MIC became the military-industrial-SECURITY-complex. It's easier to build up a centralized, well-funded federal organization than it is to try to offer a patchwork of security based on a wide variety of locations and logistical issues.
May 11, 2017, 2:19 pm
#266
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,662
I think it's time to start checking honeypots, so that we can start publicly shaming folks.
May 11, 2017, 2:19 pm
#267
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NYC / MIA / AMS
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Originally Posted by rickg523
Earlier in this thread I posited that most leisure travelers could use their mobiles for the snaps and selfies that are prevalent today. That's been my observation.
But like many of the subsequent posts, I too consider photography a vital part of my travel experience. In fact, years ago I supported myself overseas selling mounted b+w 8x10 prints to cruisers.
So the question is, what about my good old Nikon F and 4 mechanical lenses? No electronics. Not even a battery (Selinium cell meter).
But like many of the subsequent posts, I too consider photography a vital part of my travel experience. In fact, years ago I supported myself overseas selling mounted b+w 8x10 prints to cruisers.
So the question is, what about my good old Nikon F and 4 mechanical lenses? No electronics. Not even a battery (Selinium cell meter).
(Sorry, kids, your etch-a-sketch tablets will have to be checked, too)
Besides, I am not going to buy a "new" camera.
Hasselblad 500cm
Canon 7
Nikon FM3a
Lens' for the above
Security isn't there to think its their to implement orders in the easiest possible fashion.
Extending this to Europe will really get my blood in a boil especially after just booking two trips last week.
May 11, 2017, 2:29 pm
#268
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 25
I'm going to the us in aug/sep for a holiday. Flying Sweden - Heathrow - Lax. AA from Heatrow to Lax and BA from Lax to. So as of now, can I bring my laptop and tablet in the carry-on?
//Anna
//Anna
Last edited by Annaer; May 11, 2017 at 2:36 pm
May 11, 2017, 2:30 pm
#269
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May 11, 2017, 3:14 pm
#270
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 63
Doped up at home, transported naked except for passport and credit cards to the airport, wake up at your destination, buy clothes and things for your stay, repeat on the way back.