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TSA wants to get more intimate when doing passenger pat downs.

TSA wants to get more intimate when doing passenger pat downs.

Old Apr 21, 2017, 9:18 am
  #466  
 
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Originally Posted by Skatering
As far as trans women and the new TSA policy is concerned, it's procedurally just as problematic as it always was, just now several orders of magnitude worse.
Note that the video attached to this article on screening transgender travelers says that screeners may use the front/palm of their hand to screen "sensitive areas" a/k/a genitals.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ts...rticle/2620809
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Old Apr 25, 2017, 6:09 am
  #467  
 
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Was thinking United would keep TSA out of the news but.........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...assed-her.html





Seems TSA is still using the hands on screening method. At what point will this abusive treatment become to much and result in a revolt by travelers?
I think I'm beginning to see this on @TSA: complaints about the pat down, about screeners touching people without asking, taking of food, removal of all electronic devices have increased fairly significantly recently.
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Old Apr 25, 2017, 6:57 am
  #468  
 
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JFK T5 Pre, I pass thru metal detector fine, wife follows and it alarms. Told to remove light jacket but now has to go thru MMW but there is no female TSO at present at Precheck which is is the last station and empty ones between Pre and the rest of the active stations.

Bags are thru and I'm standing with them and her jacket while TSO at the metal detector is calling for a female TSO over and over.

My wife is told not to enter MMW, matter of fact it isn't even staffed.
So when a female TSO shows up wife alerts on the MMW at the right thigh (I'm looking st the display).

She goes thru the whole "Anything in your pocket" thing and the full pat down starts right in front of the machine. No offer of being taken to a private area or whatever. Front of hand of hand on the alerted area, waist band.

Nothing is found, not even a penny (had that happen alerted on a penny in my pocket). Her pockets all of them, jacket and pants were emptied into our carry on.

Question is the MMW wasn't staffed, it was roped off, does the thing have to be calibrated if not being used like a radar gun? What state do they leave the thing in when not being used?

I know this can just be another false positive, but was just wondering about it the entire theatrical performance of TSA.
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Old Apr 25, 2017, 8:02 am
  #469  
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Originally Posted by Brighton Line
JFK T5 Pre, I pass thru metal detector fine, wife follows and it alarms. Told to remove light jacket but now has to go thru MMW but there is no female TSO at present at Precheck which is is the last station and empty ones between Pre and the rest of the active stations.

Bags are thru and I'm standing with them and her jacket while TSO at the metal detector is calling for a female TSO over and over.

My wife is told not to enter MMW, matter of fact it isn't even staffed.
So when a female TSO shows up wife alerts on the MMW at the right thigh (I'm looking st the display).

She goes thru the whole "Anything in your pocket" thing and the full pat down starts right in front of the machine. No offer of being taken to a private area or whatever. Front of hand of hand on the alerted area, waist band.

Nothing is found, not even a penny (had that happen alerted on a penny in my pocket). Her pockets all of them, jacket and pants were emptied into our carry on.

Question is the MMW wasn't staffed, it was roped off, does the thing have to be calibrated if not being used like a radar gun? What state do they leave the thing in when not being used?

I know this can just be another false positive, but was just wondering about it the entire theatrical performance of TSA.
it is possible that the WTMD alarm was just a random alarm that then requires additional screening. As far as the alarms on the MMW Whole Body Imager, those machines alarm on nothing at times. My personal experience are alarms on bare skin at various checkpoints/airports. TSA's screening equipment is less than reliable.
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Old Apr 26, 2017, 1:03 pm
  #470  
 
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Originally Posted by mauve
...Also, I find that I trigger a WTMD more often than a MMW scanner, so I am considering if I should take off my shoes and belt even in Precheck, but that will probably invite attention or orders to leave them on.
While I typically fly in shoes and belts that have not caused an issue in the past, sometimes I want to wear something different. I now remove the belt I know triggered an alarm in the past. I've not been bothered so far, including on my Friday flight. I do remove the belt and put it in my briefcase before I get to the rollers, so maybe they've just not seen me do it. Don't care. I'm not going through a grope because the TSA says their machines are different from LAX.

On Friday, the TSA yelled at a woman in front of me for removing her shoes, and she refused to put them back on. She said the shoes trigger WTMD in ATL and LAX. The TSA agent replied that CMH was not LAX. Passenger just ignored him, put her shoes on the belt and walked through untouched.

No "random" grope or bag check for me on Friday. We'll see what Sunday at LAX brings. The TSA PreCheck line at CMH/C Councourse at 6 a.m. was backed up 15 people at the ID check because the screening area had backed up thanks to gropes and bag checks. Meanwhile, there was no one in the regular line for ID check or screening. I used the premium line and went to Precheck, and that was the longest wait I've had to date to get through screening since getting PreCheck. I did consider going through the regular line, but didn't feel like digging out my laptop.
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Old Apr 26, 2017, 6:57 pm
  #471  
 
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I am not sure screeners are interested touching peoples bodies; except that the few that have caught.
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Old Apr 27, 2017, 4:12 am
  #472  
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Originally Posted by sunshinekid
I am not sure screeners are interested touching peoples bodies; except that the few that have caught.
All of those TSA employees performing these full frontal genital rubs are certainly interested in touching people's bodies. The TSA employees doing this on the job all know what they can do to ordinary passengers and have chosen to touch us as they wish.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 12:59 am
  #473  
 
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Public vs. Private Patdowns/Maulings

An earlier poster suggested that if you are subjected to an "enhanced" TSA patdown, you should have it done in public, so everyone can see how ridiculous it is. Maybe it's a female thing, but I disagree. Sometimes I get told that their machine detected something metal in my hip area. They did a preliminary patdown which showed that I didn't have anything metal in my pockets or on my person. Twice I was then told I needed to be examined further, and would I like to go to a private room? I said yes. Believe me when I tell you they feel every part of your body outside of your clothes, very thoroughly. They also felt inside my pants outside of my underwear, and examined the elastic of my panties. That would have been very humiliating if done in public. It was humiliating enough to have it done in the presence of 2 guards.

I also once had my purse and/or carryon bag flagged while going through the x-ray. This was done in public: I was escorted to a large table containing my bags, with a guard on the other side. I was instructed to observe, but I was not allowed to touch the bags or any of their contents. Then the guard started emptying my bags, one item at a time, and examined everything while I watched, presumably so I couldn't accuse him of stealing something. More and more we are sacrificing our privacy and personal space when we fly. I do have to say, though, that I was very glad on those days that I wasn't one of those people who doesn't wear underwear.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 8:36 am
  #474  
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Originally Posted by Sungold
An earlier poster suggested that if you are subjected to an "enhanced" TSA patdown, you should have it done in public, so everyone can see how ridiculous it is. Maybe it's a female thing, but I disagree. Sometimes I get told that their machine detected something metal in my hip area. They did a preliminary patdown which showed that I didn't have anything metal in my pockets or on my person. Twice I was then told I needed to be examined further, and would I like to go to a private room? I said yes. Believe me when I tell you they feel every part of your body outside of your clothes, very thoroughly. They also felt inside my pants outside of my underwear, and examined the elastic of my panties. That would have been very humiliating if done in public. It was humiliating enough to have it done in the presence of 2 guards.

I also once had my purse and/or carryon bag flagged while going through the x-ray. This was done in public: I was escorted to a large table containing my bags, with a guard on the other side. I was instructed to observe, but I was not allowed to touch the bags or any of their contents. Then the guard started emptying my bags, one item at a time, and examined everything while I watched, presumably so I couldn't accuse him of stealing something. More and more we are sacrificing our privacy and personal space when we fly. I do have to say, though, that I was very glad on those days that I wasn't one of those people who doesn't wear underwear.
It's for exactly the things you were subjected to that we should force TSA to assault us in public. TSA has gone too far and if we don't push back it will only get worse.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 9:18 am
  #475  
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Originally Posted by Sungold
An earlier poster suggested that if you are subjected to an "enhanced" TSA patdown, you should have it done in public, so everyone can see how ridiculous it is. Maybe it's a female thing, but I disagree. Sometimes I get told that their machine detected something metal in my hip area. They did a preliminary patdown which showed that I didn't have anything metal in my pockets or on my person. Twice I was then told I needed to be examined further, and would I like to go to a private room? I said yes. Believe me when I tell you they feel every part of your body outside of your clothes, very thoroughly. They also felt inside my pants outside of my underwear, and examined the elastic of my panties. That would have been very humiliating if done in public. It was humiliating enough to have it done in the presence of 2 guards.

I also once had my purse and/or carryon bag flagged while going through the x-ray. This was done in public: I was escorted to a large table containing my bags, with a guard on the other side. I was instructed to observe, but I was not allowed to touch the bags or any of their contents. Then the guard started emptying my bags, one item at a time, and examined everything while I watched, presumably so I couldn't accuse him of stealing something. More and more we are sacrificing our privacy and personal space when we fly. I do have to say, though, that I was very glad on those days that I wasn't one of those people who doesn't wear underwear.
I want the world to know what ridiculous things the TSA does to men, women, and even young children at the TSA screening checkpoints. It becomes more obvious to more people what the TSA is doing when the TSA does it in public, and only when enough people are informed enough about this can the pushback be strong enough to make the TSA keep its hands off passengers' genitals.

That said, I can understand why some might feel more comfortable having this done in a "private" place, but in "private" the protection level from even extra abuse at the hands of TSA is lower.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 10:10 am
  #476  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
I want the world to know what ridiculous things the TSA does to men, women, and even young children at the TSA screening checkpoints. It becomes more obvious to more people what the TSA is doing when the TSA does it in public, and only when enough people are informed enough about this can the pushback be strong enough to make the TSA keep its hands off passengers' genitals.

That said, I can understand why some might feel more comfortable having this done in a "private" place, but in "private" the protection level from even extra abuse at the hands of TSA is lower.
+1000

I appreciate that some folks aren't comfortable being treated this way in public. I'm not comfortable with it, but I feel it is critical for the public to see what is going on. When people walk by and see a TSO's face lined up with my crotch while I get probed and rubbed, they're looking at the face of the TSO doing the nasty. They're looking at the expression on the face of the TSO who is doing it, and they are looking around at the faces of other gawking TSOs who are enjoying the show.

I want TSOs to have that kind of visibility. I want everyone to see exactly what they do If they stick their hands in my pants so hard my pants fall down, I'm not going to pull them up until told to do so. If I don't happen to be wearing underwear, I won't be embarrassed one bit. It will be the TSOs who exposed me for their own gratification - the ones doing it and the ones standing around watching it - whose faces and actions my fellow pax will remember.

Last edited by chollie; Apr 30, 2017 at 11:12 am
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 10:20 am
  #477  
 
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I want to add my support to what Boggie Dog, GUWonder and Chollie say: these searches need to be done in public.

FWIW, palms up in the genitals seems to be, excuse the pun, "grabbing hold" and not just for transgender people, for all whole body searches.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 11:43 am
  #478  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
All of those TSA employees performing these full frontal genital rubs are certainly interested in touching people's bodies. The TSA employees doing this on the job all know what they can do to ordinary passengers and have chosen to touch us as they wish.
Having a job to have a job and being "interested in touching peoples bodies" are different things. A TSA employee may go through the motions, but that does not mean that TSA employee has some perverted interest in what they are doing - as is often the accusation. Though, there have been a few with a perverted interest.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 11:59 am
  #479  
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Originally Posted by sunshinekid
Having a job to have a job and being "interested in touching peoples bodies" are different things. A TSA employee may go through the motions, but that does not mean that TSA employee has some perverted interest in what they are doing - as is often the accusation. Though, there have been a few with a perverted interest.
The rest of the world (and our own police forces) manage to securely clear people without needing to take two minutes and without needing to forcefully chop and/or firmly and repeatedly rub genitals and breasts and without needing to dip fingers into butt cracks.

How do we know the rest of the world is doing a good job? We measure their success the same way TSA measures its 'success': no dangerous contraband has been found by rubbing groins and there have been no incidents that would have been prevented by the US groin-focused searches.

However, out of an abundance of caution, I think all TSOs should be subjected to a full-body grope without warning at least once during their shift. Since their own co-workers would perform the grope, it won't be sexual or offensive, right?

I know a young man working as a security guard. He was assigned to a hospital but only lasted two nights. He couldn't stand the sight or smell of blood.

Plenty of jobs around, and it's not like TSA demands a particularly high level of education or an advanced skill set. I have met one TSO who left when TSA got rid of the wands and brought in the NoS's and the genital obsession - and the economy was a lot slower then. The young security guard I know didn't like certain things about his job - the blood and smells - and he found a new job.

Ergo, if someone's standing there with his/her face inches away from someone's genitals or buttocks, groping and sniffing all day long, I can only assume that they are fine with what they are doing.

Last edited by chollie; Apr 30, 2017 at 12:06 pm
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 12:12 pm
  #480  
 
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Returning from Europe, August 2016, clearing customs and connecting through Dulles. I get to the security line for domestic departures and inquire about precheck (which was on my boarding pass). TSA <deleted by moderator> says (quite smugly) “There’s no precheck here!”

From the TSA website:
“TSA Pre✓ is available when you depart from a U.S. airport to a foreign country, and for domestic, connecting flights after you return to the United States. “

Not so much.

With no other choice, I proceed to do the shoes thing and walk through the scanner. Here’s the thing : I get a false positive EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I go through one of those. (I have found they have higher than a 30% false positive rate). So I expect a perfunctory pat-down, I’ve tried very hard not to get upset over it.

This was not a perfunctory pat-down.

Here I am, a 70-year-old, white, native-born American woman and they are not going to give up even though they must know about the high rate of false positives. I had to go BACK through the machine at least once, spread my legs farther apart, pull up my pants, hold my arms out to my sides, and then undergo a very aggressive search including hands jammed forcefully up around my genital area. In any other context this woman would be on the sexual predator watch list for the rest of her life. (And I was not offered the choice of a private room, which I would have declined anyway).

And I got LECTURED by another agent for complaining. God knows what would have happened if I tried to elevate the situation - would have missed my flight for sure, maybe would have been detained for questioning.

Last edited by TWA884; Apr 30, 2017 at 5:51 pm Reason: Term not used in this forum.Please refer to sticky post.
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