Executive orders banning entry to US ... [merged threads]
Feb 1, 2017, 7:20 pm
#166
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L.A. federal judge orders a temporary halt to part of Trump's travel ban
Who knows?
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Using sweeping, unambiguous language, U.S. District Judge Andre Birotte Jr. on Tuesday night granted a temporary restraining order against the executive order Trump signed late last week.
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Finding that the plaintiffs stand a good chance of prevailing when the case is heard in court and are “likely to suffer irreparable harm” if he didn’t act, Birotte instructed that the plaintiffs be allowed entry into the U.S.
Birotte, however, went further, granting a request from the plaintiffs’ lawyers that his ruling be applied to anyone trying to enter the U.S. on a valid immigrant visa from the seven countries included in Trump’s ban.
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Notably, in his ruling, Birotte forbade federal officials from “removing, detaining, or blocking the entry” of affected travelers or “cancelling validly obtained and issued immigrant visas of plaintiffs.” The wording would seem to mean that government officials would not be allowed to continue the practice of instructing airlines and border officials in other countries to stop immigrants from the affected countries from boarding planes bound for the U.S.
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Using sweeping, unambiguous language, U.S. District Judge Andre Birotte Jr. on Tuesday night granted a temporary restraining order against the executive order Trump signed late last week.
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Finding that the plaintiffs stand a good chance of prevailing when the case is heard in court and are “likely to suffer irreparable harm” if he didn’t act, Birotte instructed that the plaintiffs be allowed entry into the U.S.
Birotte, however, went further, granting a request from the plaintiffs’ lawyers that his ruling be applied to anyone trying to enter the U.S. on a valid immigrant visa from the seven countries included in Trump’s ban.
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Notably, in his ruling, Birotte forbade federal officials from “removing, detaining, or blocking the entry” of affected travelers or “cancelling validly obtained and issued immigrant visas of plaintiffs.” The wording would seem to mean that government officials would not be allowed to continue the practice of instructing airlines and border officials in other countries to stop immigrants from the affected countries from boarding planes bound for the U.S.
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Feb 1, 2017, 7:24 pm
#167
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LA Times and BBC Persian both reported around 4:30 EST that there's a California injunction claiming nationwide jurisdiction now that should apply to all immigrant visa holders (e.g. spouses of USCs yet to make first entry). Is this ruling just going to be ignored by the airline contractors and CBP, as seems to be happening with the Massachusetts ruling that also appeared to cover nonimmigrant visa holders?
Feb 1, 2017, 10:21 pm
#168
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Not to repeat myself, but approaching this situation from a social scientific viewpoint it would sure be a useful act of experimental research if somebody chartered a plane full of refugees to a Massachusetts or California general aviation port of entry right about now. The outcome of such action would allow us to at least isolate whether the problem is with CBP not admitting individuals pursuant to the court orders or with the airlines being unwilling to board.
I don't totally blame the airlines and other parties involved (ICTS and similar contract "security" firms?) for being afraid of incurring a massive pile of fines should they end up at the wrong end of a constitutional crisis, especially given that a situation where the legal validity of a visa depends on the choice of POE is virtually unprecedented. But, I wonder if now we have a collective action problem where nobody is willing to incur the risks involved in testing the waters.
In an unrelated update, my employer (a R1 university) sent out a memo this afternoon requesting all employees, including single-nationality US citizens, to register all personal/leisure and official international travel with HR prior to departure - a change from our prior policy as I understood it of only registering official travel to developing countries and conflict zones. The email cited the possibility of "sudden immigration policy changes"...
I don't totally blame the airlines and other parties involved (ICTS and similar contract "security" firms?) for being afraid of incurring a massive pile of fines should they end up at the wrong end of a constitutional crisis, especially given that a situation where the legal validity of a visa depends on the choice of POE is virtually unprecedented. But, I wonder if now we have a collective action problem where nobody is willing to incur the risks involved in testing the waters.
In an unrelated update, my employer (a R1 university) sent out a memo this afternoon requesting all employees, including single-nationality US citizens, to register all personal/leisure and official international travel with HR prior to departure - a change from our prior policy as I understood it of only registering official travel to developing countries and conflict zones. The email cited the possibility of "sudden immigration policy changes"...
Feb 2, 2017, 7:50 am
#169
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Not to repeat myself, but approaching this situation from a social scientific viewpoint it would sure be a useful act of experimental research if somebody chartered a plane full of refugees to a Massachusetts or California general aviation port of entry right about now. The outcome of such action would allow us to at least isolate whether the problem is with CBP not admitting individuals pursuant to the court orders or with the airlines being unwilling to board.
I don't totally blame the airlines and other parties involved (ICTS and similar contract "security" firms?) for being afraid of incurring a massive pile of fines should they end up at the wrong end of a constitutional crisis, especially given that a situation where the legal validity of a visa depends on the choice of POE is virtually unprecedented. But, I wonder if now we have a collective action problem where nobody is willing to incur the risks involved in testing the waters.
In an unrelated update, my employer (a R1 university) sent out a memo this afternoon requesting all employees, including single-nationality US citizens, to register all personal/leisure and official international travel with HR prior to departure - a change from our prior policy as I understood it of only registering official travel to developing countries and conflict zones. The email cited the possibility of "sudden immigration policy changes"...
I don't totally blame the airlines and other parties involved (ICTS and similar contract "security" firms?) for being afraid of incurring a massive pile of fines should they end up at the wrong end of a constitutional crisis, especially given that a situation where the legal validity of a visa depends on the choice of POE is virtually unprecedented. But, I wonder if now we have a collective action problem where nobody is willing to incur the risks involved in testing the waters.
In an unrelated update, my employer (a R1 university) sent out a memo this afternoon requesting all employees, including single-nationality US citizens, to register all personal/leisure and official international travel with HR prior to departure - a change from our prior policy as I understood it of only registering official travel to developing countries and conflict zones. The email cited the possibility of "sudden immigration policy changes"...
Feb 2, 2017, 8:45 am
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Feb 2, 2017, 10:21 am
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Feasibility. It's beyond the financial and organizational capability of the typical person - the organizer would have pay to charter an international flight, round up passengers for the flight, and do a whole lot of other things. I don't even know what the "other things" are. It's the sort of thing for an organization with appropriate expertise to undertake.
Feb 2, 2017, 1:59 pm
#172
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Honestly, I'd love to if I was of financial means. My wife and I have seriously talked about starting an open borders lobbying organization when we're a little further along in our careers, but we feel that it would be irresponsible to our family to do so at the moment given the financial and time pressures of being a pre-tenure academic. I'm totally willing to chip in a hundred bucks if some organization with the expertise and chutzpah is making such an effort, though, as I already have done for two of the legal organizations filing injunctions this week.
I guess I was just thinking aloud here mainly because I'm suprised that nobody from the affected countries has attempted to reach an injunction state by alternative means, of which general aviation would be the most obvious but not the only example (e.g., given ongoing geopolitical tensions, one also imagines that Mexico might be willing to give a transit visa to a low-risk Iranian determined to reach San Ysidro if approached delicately).
I guess I was just thinking aloud here mainly because I'm suprised that nobody from the affected countries has attempted to reach an injunction state by alternative means, of which general aviation would be the most obvious but not the only example (e.g., given ongoing geopolitical tensions, one also imagines that Mexico might be willing to give a transit visa to a low-risk Iranian determined to reach San Ysidro if approached delicately).
Feb 2, 2017, 2:08 pm
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Along with this muddled ban design and its implementation, a mass purge of Global Entry membership took place that hit US citizens and LPRs and others with citizenship in the blacklisted countries.
I'm curious to find out if this ban and associated purge also hit people who were natural-born US citizens born in the blacklisted countries to US citizen parents (one or more) who were then assigned by the US government/military to work in one of these countries that has been blacklisted.
I'm curious to find out if this ban and associated purge also hit people who were natural-born US citizens born in the blacklisted countries to US citizen parents (one or more) who were then assigned by the US government/military to work in one of these countries that has been blacklisted.
Feb 2, 2017, 5:33 pm
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Does an LPR who has not been out for more than 6 months gain ANY advantage at all by signing an I-407? It looks to me like this like a roadside stop where the police know they have no reason to do a search (and had no reason even to make the stop) but try to bully the driver into giving "consent."
Well actually, under the law as it actually exists the agents should just back down, but the "advantage" I suppose is to avoid being put into removal and imprisoned (I try not to say "detention" or "detained") until (after Gods only know how long) either a corrupt judge orders removal or an honest judge dismisses the case).
Well actually, under the law as it actually exists the agents should just back down, but the "advantage" I suppose is to avoid being put into removal and imprisoned (I try not to say "detention" or "detained") until (after Gods only know how long) either a corrupt judge orders removal or an honest judge dismisses the case).
Feb 2, 2017, 5:47 pm
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http://patch.com/massachusetts/bosto...n-airline-says
http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information
Wow. No charter necessary. Looks like there's now a very small opening for anyone with a soon-to-expire visa to try to sneak in before another door closes.
I'm having my brother in law message someone in a case we know of holding a diversity visa that will be forfeited if not used by the end of February that this looks like the moment to buy an immediate walk-up fare to Boston. Those tickets may go fast, I suspect... hopefully the lawyers will be ready at Logan when that flight lands tomorrow.
http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information
Wow. No charter necessary. Looks like there's now a very small opening for anyone with a soon-to-expire visa to try to sneak in before another door closes.
I'm having my brother in law message someone in a case we know of holding a diversity visa that will be forfeited if not used by the end of February that this looks like the moment to buy an immediate walk-up fare to Boston. Those tickets may go fast, I suspect... hopefully the lawyers will be ready at Logan when that flight lands tomorrow.
Feb 2, 2017, 6:08 pm
#176
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http://patch.com/massachusetts/bosto...n-airline-says
http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information
Wow. No charter necessary. Looks like there's now a very small opening for anyone with a soon-to-expire visa to try to sneak in before another door closes.
I'm having my brother in law message someone in a case we know of holding a diversity visa that will be forfeited if not used by the end of February that this looks like the moment to buy an immediate walk-up fare to Boston. Those tickets may go fast, I suspect... hopefully the lawyers will be ready at Logan when that flight lands tomorrow.
http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information
Wow. No charter necessary. Looks like there's now a very small opening for anyone with a soon-to-expire visa to try to sneak in before another door closes.
I'm having my brother in law message someone in a case we know of holding a diversity visa that will be forfeited if not used by the end of February that this looks like the moment to buy an immediate walk-up fare to Boston. Those tickets may go fast, I suspect... hopefully the lawyers will be ready at Logan when that flight lands tomorrow.
I'm looking to see if someone can get me some numbers for EU-US online flight booking searches, but I wouldn't be surprised if demand for EU-US travel has dropped even further since last Friday.
Feb 3, 2017, 12:57 pm
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Lufthansa has removed the exception for Boston flights from its website as of early this afternoon. Any idea what is going on?
Also, there is now a somewhat-organized campaign asking other carriers to transport visa holders in accordance with the injunction.
Local media is reporting that student visa holders were admitted at Logan about two hours ago.
Also, there is now a somewhat-organized campaign asking other carriers to transport visa holders in accordance with the injunction.
Local media is reporting that student visa holders were admitted at Logan about two hours ago.
Last edited by lonelycrowd; Feb 3, 2017 at 1:24 pm
Feb 3, 2017, 1:24 pm
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Might have something to do with State having revoked the so-called "valid" visas and LH not wanting to mislead people. DHS probably sends back a "11" inhibited boarding pass instruction to airlines on a passenger traveling on a revoked visa. The BOS exception was a fool's errand; DHS/State conspired to get around the TRO and will blame each other and no one will be held in contempt.
Last edited by Ari; Feb 3, 2017 at 1:30 pm
Feb 3, 2017, 1:57 pm
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Might have something to do with State having revoked the so-called "valid" visas and LH not wanting to mislead people. DHS probably sends back a "11" inhibited boarding pass instruction to airlines on a passenger traveling on a revoked visa. The BOS exception was a fool's errand; DHS/State conspired to get around the TRO and will blame each other and no one will be held in contempt.
The Admin forced a revocation of over 60,000 to over 100,000 US visas within 7 days:
https://news.google.com/news/amp?cau...121#pt0-794870
This kind of thing has not happened in the US in the living memory of any still working USFS employee AFAIK. Unprecedented in at least the past 50 years.
By the way, the State Department spokesperson is being deceptive in the the government's quote in the above link.
Last edited by GUWonder; Feb 3, 2017 at 2:08 pm
Feb 3, 2017, 2:22 pm
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Trump's Executive Order that created this chaos at airports worldwide and at various US ports of entry these past few days seems to violate a Kennedy Executive Order that still stands:
https://theintercept.com/2017/02/03/...cutive-orders/
Not that this will change anything. But it does go to show a bit how sloppily this thing was done.
The Trump EO also came with a mass purge of the GE membership rolls. But the NEXUS membership purge has a different angle. Here's a story about a part of this purge: http://globalnews.ca/news/3225455/ne...mp-travel-ban/
https://theintercept.com/2017/02/03/...cutive-orders/
Not that this will change anything. But it does go to show a bit how sloppily this thing was done.
The Trump EO also came with a mass purge of the GE membership rolls. But the NEXUS membership purge has a different angle. Here's a story about a part of this purge: http://globalnews.ca/news/3225455/ne...mp-travel-ban/
Last edited by GUWonder; Feb 3, 2017 at 2:40 pm