Executive orders banning entry to US ... [merged threads]
Feb 16, 2017, 9:33 am
#271
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In light of all the above evidence, you would still say it's not prudent to take a 90 day pause so we can re-evaluate our systems, identify our weaknesses and shore them up... Ergo, agree with it or not, it's consistent to take that one step further and pause things for 3 months to make sure things are airtight as possible.
Again, I hope I'm wrong. But we're 20 days into this process that was originally slated to only take 30 days, and there's deafening silence from State and just vague rumors about social media screening from DHS leadership (they know that State forbids all personal electronic devices in consular interview rooms in much of the world, right?) at this point with respect to the actual improvements in security that we have been led to believe are so essential that they could not be implemented any other way.
If anyone out there hears of concrete developments on what "extreme vetting" is likely to constitute, I'd be very interested to know. I'm seeing no evidence that this is on today's White House agenda - indeed, if we go by tweets as an indicator of their agenda, they may be looking to pivot toward economic policy. I imagine that would be a positive development for those of us buying time...
Feb 16, 2017, 11:48 am
#272
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Well it looks like we finally got some indication of where they are on executive orders. Donald just said something in a press conference about extreme vetting and that "we had to do it quicker than we thought because of those bad decisions" (perhaps not a 100% precise transcription on my part), which suggests that they might be moving in the direction of playing their cards on new vetting procedures rather than continuing to fight for the remainder of the "temporary" blanket ban. He said that he expects it to be announced early in the week - let's hope for some leaks before then...
Feb 16, 2017, 5:42 pm
#273
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Well it looks like we finally got some indication of where they are on executive orders. Donald just said something in a press conference about extreme vetting and that "we had to do it quicker than we thought because of those bad decisions" (perhaps not a 100% precise transcription on my part), which suggests that they might be moving in the direction of playing their cards on new vetting procedures rather than continuing to fight for the remainder of the "temporary" blanket ban. He said that he expects it to be announced early in the week - let's hope for some leaks before then...
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...al%20brief.pdf
Feb 16, 2017, 11:15 pm
#274
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They ran up the white flag this afternoon on any further appeals of Judge Robart's TRO (go right to p. 4):
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...al%20brief.pdf
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...al%20brief.pdf
Originally Posted by from above link
Nevertheless, the United States does not seek en banc review of the merits of the panel’s ruling. Rather than continuing this litigation, the President intends in the near future to rescind the Order and replace it with a new, substantially revised Executive Order to eliminate what the panel erroneously thought were constitutional concerns. Cf. Op. 24 (declining to narrow the district court’s overbroad injunction because “[t]he political branches are far better equipped to make appropriate distinctions”). In so doing, the President will clear the way for immediately protecting the country rather than pursuing further, potentially time-consuming litigation. Under the unusual circumstances presented here—including the extraordinarily expedited proceedings and limited briefing to the panel, the complexity and constitutional magnitude of the issues, the Court’s sua sponte consideration of rehearing en banc, and respect for the President’s constitutional responsibilities—the government respectfully submits that the most appropriate course would be for the Court to hold its consideration of the case until the President issues the new Order and then vacate the panel’s preliminary decision. To facilitate that disposition, the government will notify the Court of the new Order as soon as it is issued.
Feb 17, 2017, 4:30 pm
#275
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The situation in Europe is far FAR different from that of the US. In Europe people floated and walked across the borders. There was n
vetting, pre-clearance or visa. People just showed up. The US is an ocean away (A natural wall!). The refugees and immigrants coming here are not coming unannounced. They have gone through many many steps to obtain passports and visas. The process is rather lengthy. The process is entirely different from the 2015 situation you are referring to in Europe.
vetting, pre-clearance or visa. People just showed up. The US is an ocean away (A natural wall!). The refugees and immigrants coming here are not coming unannounced. They have gone through many many steps to obtain passports and visas. The process is rather lengthy. The process is entirely different from the 2015 situation you are referring to in Europe.Had this ban been in place in 2000, not a single terrorist attack (that resulted in casualties) that happened on US soil since then would have been prevented. And that's why this ban is ineffective and nonsensical.
I also think this ban is just a precursor to a permanent Muslim ban. After all, it's for 90 days, which is the amount of time they give themselves to "figure out what's happening." What happens, if in 90 days, there's still "more stuff to figure out"? It's not a stretch to see this turning into a permanent and indefinite ban. In my mind, it's a complete subversion to American value.
Additionally, no Yemeni (or Iraqi, or whatever) terrorist will ever come to the US as a refugee. It's not like you can just apply and get in. The process takes 2 years for countries with working governments, and up to 4 years for countries like Yemen which doesn't have a strong central government. Every other immigrant visa route is easier than coming in as a refugee. Refugees are just easy targets because of their diminished rights, and Trump is a bully and a coward who goes after the poorest of the poor.
Feb 19, 2017, 2:29 pm
#276
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The Admin seems to be signaling it will try again at reinstating (or at least to announcing the reinstatement of) a ban as early as Tuesday:
https://us.yahoo.com/news/u-travel-b...002645407.html
https://us.yahoo.com/news/u-travel-b...002645407.html
Feb 20, 2017, 7:41 am
#277
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Originally Posted by AP
WASHINGTON (AP) — A draft of President Donald Trump's revised immigration ban targets the same seven countries listed in his original executive order and exempts travelers who already have a visa to travel to the U.S., even if they haven't used it yet.
A senior administration official said the order, which Trump revised after federal courts held up his original immigration and refugee ban, will target only those same seven Muslim-majority countries — Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan and Libya.
The official said that green-card holders and dual citizens of the U.S. and any of those countries are exempt. The new draft also no longer directs authorities to single out — and reject — Syrian refugees when processing new visa applications.
<snip>
A senior administration official said the order, which Trump revised after federal courts held up his original immigration and refugee ban, will target only those same seven Muslim-majority countries — Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan and Libya.
The official said that green-card holders and dual citizens of the U.S. and any of those countries are exempt. The new draft also no longer directs authorities to single out — and reject — Syrian refugees when processing new visa applications.
<snip>
Last edited by TWA884; Feb 20, 2017 at 10:28 am Reason: Copyright violation; please refer to FT Rule 9
Feb 20, 2017, 10:26 am
#278
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The situation in Europe is far FAR different from that of the US. In Europe people floated and walked across the borders. There was n vetting, pre-clearance or visa. People just showed up. The US is an ocean away (A natural wall!). The refugees and immigrants coming here are not coming unannounced. They have gone through many many steps to obtain passports and visas. The process is rather lengthy. The process is entirely different from the 2015 situation you are referring to in Europe.
vetting, pre-clearance or visa. People just showed up. The US is an ocean away (A natural wall!). The refugees and immigrants coming here are not coming unannounced. They have gone through many many steps to obtain passports and visas. The process is rather lengthy. The process is entirely different from the 2015 situation you are referring to in Europe.
Feb 22, 2017, 8:05 pm
#279
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British Muslim schoolteacher denied entry to US
A British teacher on a school field trip was escorted off an Icelandair flight to New York as 39 students looked on in shock.
<snip>
Miah, who is Muslim, was born in Birmingham, England, and grew up in Swansea, Wales. The trip was due to be his first visit to the US. He was traveling on his British passport with a US visitor's visa, he told CNN. Miah is not a citizen of any other country.
"It all started when I met the first official. I gave her my passport. My first name is Mohammad. Straight away she looked at me and said you have been randomly selected for a security check," Miah told CNN. After a brief search, Miah was allowed to board the plane. But shortly after that, he was informed he had been denied entry to the US and wouldn't be able to travel.
<snip>
<snip>
Miah, who is Muslim, was born in Birmingham, England, and grew up in Swansea, Wales. The trip was due to be his first visit to the US. He was traveling on his British passport with a US visitor's visa, he told CNN. Miah is not a citizen of any other country.
"It all started when I met the first official. I gave her my passport. My first name is Mohammad. Straight away she looked at me and said you have been randomly selected for a security check," Miah told CNN. After a brief search, Miah was allowed to board the plane. But shortly after that, he was informed he had been denied entry to the US and wouldn't be able to travel.
<snip>
Feb 23, 2017, 2:21 am
#280
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The Admin seems to be signaling it will try again at reinstating (or at least to announcing the reinstatement of) a ban as early as Tuesday:
https://us.yahoo.com/news/u-travel-b...002645407.html
https://us.yahoo.com/news/u-travel-b...002645407.html
https://www.google.com/amp/www.indep...591.html%3Famp
The show continues.
I also wouldn't be so sure that he's not a dual-citizen of some country. Large numbers of dual-citizens don't even know they are dual-citizens. Often even some of their countries of (dual-)citizenship don't even know all who are a citizen of the country. Much the same goes for US citizens, as many US dual-citizens don't even know they are also US citizens; and often the US Government is as clueless about these US dual-citizens' US citizenship as the US dual-citizens unaware of their US citizenship status.
Last edited by GUWonder; Feb 23, 2017 at 2:33 am
Feb 23, 2017, 7:40 am
#281
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Odd that they are taking so long after publicly announcing that this was a done deal. No idea whether that's a good or a bad sign for us - my preference at this point would be for them to go down the route Stephen Miller seemed to be pointing toward last weekend and just reenact the whole ban minus green card holders and preference for religious minorities, as that would be most likely to meet a strong legal challenge and buy us a few more weeks of TRO. I'm much more afraid of a dramatically watered down order in which virtually every visa category except ours is spared, as diversity would seem to have the weakest claim to standing in an US court...
My family has decided to go ahead and pay the nonrefundable visa application fee to the Emirates for their standing interview appointment at this point. My brother in law is encouraged by the report on CNN that visas "already in progress" may be exempted in this revision, but I haven't seen any other reporting indicating that there are plans for such an exemption.
My family has decided to go ahead and pay the nonrefundable visa application fee to the Emirates for their standing interview appointment at this point. My brother in law is encouraged by the report on CNN that visas "already in progress" may be exempted in this revision, but I haven't seen any other reporting indicating that there are plans for such an exemption.
Feb 23, 2017, 7:51 am
#282
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Odd that they are taking so long after publicly announcing that this was a done deal. No idea whether that's a good or a bad sign for us - my preference at this point would be for them to go down the route Stephen Miller seemed to be pointing toward last weekend and just reenact the whole ban minus green card holders and preference for religious minorities, as that would be most likely to meet a strong legal challenge and buy us a few more weeks of TRO. I'm much more afraid of a dramatically watered down order in which virtually every visa category except ours is spared, as diversity would seem to have the weakest claim to standing in an US court...
My family has decided to go ahead and pay the nonrefundable visa application fee to the Emirates for their standing interview appointment at this point. My brother in law is encouraged by the report on CNN that visas "already in progress" may be exempted in this revision, but I haven't seen any other reporting indicating that there are plans for such an exemption.
My family has decided to go ahead and pay the nonrefundable visa application fee to the Emirates for their standing interview appointment at this point. My brother in law is encouraged by the report on CNN that visas "already in progress" may be exempted in this revision, but I haven't seen any other reporting indicating that there are plans for such an exemption.
Interestingly enough, the US embassy/consulate appointment booking system even for US citizen/ACS use has become "more intelligent". In other words, there is more (near-)real-time cross-checking going on for people trying to make or change appointments. There are aspects of that which ought to raise concerns. That said, I'm not sure if this change (for additional cross-checking) for appointment system use was pre-EO/pre-2017.
Feb 23, 2017, 8:03 am
#283
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I am not sure that the above Muslim British teacher's denial of entry/travel by CBP was caused by the EO ban. Rather I suspect that his first and last name being shared by many people and/or his internet activity is more likely to have been the driving factor in his inability to travel to and enter the US on a school trip.
Feb 23, 2017, 8:13 am
#284
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But, his name being on a list should have been noted and addressed during the visa approval process and the visa not granted or, if cleared up, then it should have been a quick thing for the name confusion to be resolved and the man allowed to travel (at that time or very soon after).
There are some post-ESTA-issuance and post-check-in checks that stop people from traveling to the US that would otherwise not be noticed at time of say ticket purchase or ESTA application/approval, and part of that is due to US bureaucratic silo-ism and part of it is due to other elements.
He was traveling under the US Visa Waiver Program.
I haven't cared to find out what citizenship rights this British citizen may have currently besides his UK citizenship, but I'm pretty sure he likely had a claim to dual-citizenship at some point whether or not he knows it and/or exercised it.
Feb 23, 2017, 2:43 pm
#285
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An interesting read was just posted on CNN.com that perhaps sheds some light on why we've been waiting so long for the revised order.
My personal favorite quote from the report:
Can't imagine that the mere existence of a dissenting policy brief within DOJ, much less from the Intelligence and Analysis division, is good for their case in the next round of legal challenges.
By the way, are people still hearing early next week as the anticipated announcement date? My wife heard a rumor via Iranian social media this afternoon (EST) that the announcement has been moved up to tomorrow, but I've been scanning Google News and can't find any basis for this prediction.
My personal favorite quote from the report:
The White House official said the Obama administration tried to downplay the threat [posed by nationals of the seven countries] while the Trump administration believes in a culture of "very robust disclosure."
By the way, are people still hearing early next week as the anticipated announcement date? My wife heard a rumor via Iranian social media this afternoon (EST) that the announcement has been moved up to tomorrow, but I've been scanning Google News and can't find any basis for this prediction.