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TSA is starting that RealID stuff again...

TSA is starting that RealID stuff again...

Old Jan 22, 2017, 5:29 am
  #46  
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins
With respect ... what evidence do we have that they care about this issue? They haven't cared enough to lobby TSA about the current state of screening.

As others have pointed out here frequently, it's in the best interest of the airlines for the government to perform screening duties; that way, the airlines get all of the benefits of screening without any of the costs or risks or liabilities.
When the airlines had to help reschedule a significant number of customers due to TSA delays is the point they would care. Just like with the TSA work slow down last year, the airlines got involved.
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Old Jan 22, 2017, 9:01 am
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by reclusive46
To be fair wouldn't this be like any travel document change. Like changes in requirements to cross the US Canada Mexico border or removing the ability for children to travel on their parents passports.

Yes people won't be able to travel and it will affect people for a few weeks or months but after that it won't be much of an issue and if there is enough publicity it's not really TSAs problem.
The vast majority of Americans do not have a passport or any form of photo ID except their driver's license. A state would not be able to develop a RealID license in a short period of time, and would not be able to re-issue new licenses to everyone in an even longer period of time. As far as forcing citizens to use a passport for domestic travel, that's a political non-starter on a number of fronts. Having to pay $110.00 and waiting a few months for a passport just so you can fly from Kansas to Florida isn't an acceptable solution for most people.
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Old Jan 27, 2017, 7:51 pm
  #48  
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Originally Posted by catocony
The vast majority of Americans do not have a passport or any form of photo ID except their driver's license.
Vast majority? Looks like 131,841,062 valid passports in circulation as of 2016. https://travel.state.gov/content/pas...tatistics.html
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Old Jan 27, 2017, 8:01 pm
  #49  
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Originally Posted by dhuey
Vast majority? Looks like 131,841,062 valid passports in circulation as of 2016. https://travel.state.gov/content/pas...tatistics.html
Doing the math based on the US population that is about 41% of Americans who own a passport. Actually considering some of the population that's not a terrible number.
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Old Jan 28, 2017, 8:02 pm
  #50  
 
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I just hope the TSA won't start giving people hassle for having a passport for domestic travel instead of a compliant DL. There have been posts in the past like the ones below where the TSA did cause trouble for passengers who were using non-DL ID's like passport cards, passports, etc., and yet, they are listed as perfectly "acceptable" forms of ID for travel on the TSA website...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/pract...c-flights.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/pract...yesterday.html

This will be interesting to watch.

Last edited by Poker2012chu; Jan 28, 2017 at 8:05 pm Reason: to add more information how these ID's are acceptable per the TSA guidlines
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Old Jan 29, 2017, 9:07 am
  #51  
 
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There are two big dates this year. June 6, 2017 and October 10, 2017. With no extensions, about half of the ID's in the U.S. will not be Real ID compliant. Will this congress actually be aware of this and pass yet more extensions? I'd be happier if they would junk the whole idiotic act.
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Old Feb 19, 2017, 8:44 am
  #52  
 
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I didn't read the entire thread, so I apologize if this is repeated information. There was just some discussion in a Trip Report thread, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27919165-post2.html

I was at a Federal facility for first responders recently for a weekend class. The same "Real ID" rules apply throughout the Federal Government. If I did not have a passport or GE and had a DL from one of the states listed, and it was after January 22, 2018, I would not have been admitted to the facility. In fact the classes for first responders from Maine have already been canceled for 2018 because Maine knows that it will not meet the requirements. Apparently the states have had at least 10 years to comply with the requirements of the act.
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Old Feb 19, 2017, 9:11 am
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by Pesky Monkey
I'd be happier if they would junk the whole idiotic act.
Why would you not want reasonable protections for US-issued IDs, whether issued by a state or by the feds? I've been around long enough to know how easy it was to 'modify' MD and DC driver's licenses for buying beer. I, for one, am glad that a MD DL is now extremely difficult to modify. Do you not want to be even more reasonably sure about who is who when you travel?
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Old Feb 19, 2017, 9:53 am
  #54  
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Originally Posted by lamphs
Why would you not want reasonable protections for US-issued IDs, whether issued by a state or by the feds? I've been around long enough to know how easy it was to 'modify' MD and DC driver's licenses for buying beer. I, for one, am glad that a MD DL is now extremely difficult to modify. Do you not want to be even more reasonably sure about who is who when you travel?
Why?

I don't care if the pax has unpaid child support, is out on bail, is a paroled murderer, has unpaid library fines, or has twelve fake IDs stashed in her shoe.

If TSA has done its job, identity doesn't matter - the pax and his/her belongings have been properly screened and present no threat to me or aviation security.

The rest of the world seems to understand this. The rest of the world uses airport screening to screen pax and belongings to ensure that no dangerous contraband (hazardous to pax and flight) gets into the sterile area and on board the plane. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever harmed a pax or an aircraft by using a fake ID.

After all, a soldier, a munitions expert, boarded a plane in Fayetteville with two bricks of government-issue, military grade C4 in his carry-on - a carry-on that was flagged and searched because he also had a live grenade. He had legitimate active-duty military ID.

Which was potentially the greater threat: the guy with legitimate ID and explosives in his bag or someone without ID who has been groped, swabbed, groin-chopped, buttock-stroked, and asked 50 questions because he showed up without an ID?
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Old Feb 19, 2017, 11:48 am
  #55  
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Originally Posted by lamphs
Why would you not want reasonable protections for US-issued IDs, whether issued by a state or by the feds? I've been around long enough to know how easy it was to 'modify' MD and DC driver's licenses for buying beer. I, for one, am glad that a MD DL is now extremely difficult to modify. Do you not want to be even more reasonably sure about who is who when you travel?

Why should the feds dictate what kind of driver license states should issue, and make no mistake an operators permit is not an identity card?

Why should a person need an ID to travel? What security function is not completed by not showing any form of ID to TSA?

People who believe in real freedom rejects having to present documents to government in order to travel.
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Old Feb 19, 2017, 4:56 pm
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Why should the feds dictate what kind of driver license states should issue, and make no mistake an operators permit is not an identity card?
The feds don't have the right to dictate anything, but they have every right to decide what kind of ID their own agencies will accept. Given that the TSA accepts plenty of other forms of ID, including a passport from any country in the world, no state really is obligated to implement REAL ID if they don't want to.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Why should a person need an ID to travel? What security function is not completed by not showing any form of ID to TSA?
Enforcement of the no-fly list.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
People who believe in real freedom rejects having to present documents to government in order to travel.
People who believe in real freedom are focused on more important things than TSA ID checks.
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Old Feb 19, 2017, 7:11 pm
  #57  
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Originally Posted by cbn42
The feds don't have the right to dictate anything, but they have every right to decide what kind of ID their own agencies will accept. Given that the TSA accepts plenty of other forms of ID, including a passport from any country in the world, no state really is obligated to implement REAL ID if they don't want to.

Enforcement of the no-fly list.

People who believe in real freedom are focused on more important things than TSA ID checks.
The feds have specified the style acceptable ID must conform to and is using a basic right, freedom to travel, to leverage compliance.

No Fly List compliance is accomplished when an airline ticket is purchase, TSA has little to do with that.

People who believe in freedom are focused on all attempts by government to steal rights and freedoms from the people. The Real ID Act is a prime example, one that should put everyone on notice that government is overstepping.
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Old Feb 21, 2017, 2:46 pm
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My original point was that the RIDA is not just related to air travel. It apparently affects entrance to all federal facilities if you do not have a federal government ID.

I think we can agree that the states (like it or not) have had several years to conform to the standard and a handful of states have not done so. Those states are only hurting their own citizens.

As far as I know, a passport or a GE card are the only forms of a 'national' ID. And being fairly well traveled (~50 countries), I know of no country where I have not had to use my passport for air and train travel and sometimes have to provide it multiple times for the same segment, i.e. check-in, immigration, customs, lounge entrance, boarding, etc.

I tend to agree with some of the recent posts. A DL has a lot of information on it - useful to others for nefarious activities. However, I have similar concerns about my passport; in fact when I am asked to provide a copy of my passport, especially at lodging, I always ask under what authority.

Federal overreach? Absolutely, but that argument could be made for so many government functions that affect us everyday. A DL/state ID standard is fairly far down on my list of overreach concerns.

I agree that the TSA (and similar programs throughout the world) are in part for show, but those programs are not going away.

So what is the practical solution? A national identity card or a mandatory passport?
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Old Feb 21, 2017, 6:19 pm
  #59  
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Originally Posted by lamphs
My original point was that the RIDA is not just related to air travel. It apparently affects entrance to all federal facilities if you do not have a federal government ID.

I think we can agree that the states (like it or not) have had several years to conform to the standard and a handful of states have not done so. Those states are only hurting their own citizens.

As far as I know, a passport or a GE card are the only forms of a 'national' ID. And being fairly well traveled (~50 countries), I know of no country where I have not had to use my passport for air and train travel and sometimes have to provide it multiple times for the same segment, i.e. check-in, immigration, customs, lounge entrance, boarding, etc.

I tend to agree with some of the recent posts. A DL has a lot of information on it - useful to others for nefarious activities. However, I have similar concerns about my passport; in fact when I am asked to provide a copy of my passport, especially at lodging, I always ask under what authority.

Federal overreach? Absolutely, but that argument could be made for so many government functions that affect us everyday. A DL/state ID standard is fairly far down on my list of overreach concerns.

I agree that the TSA (and similar programs throughout the world) are in part for show, but those programs are not going away.

So what is the practical solution? A national identity card or a mandatory passport?
Neither of those things supports a free people. No form of ID should be needed for travel within the United States. Papers please does not fit with my idea of what America was meant to be.
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Old Feb 21, 2017, 7:28 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
The feds have specified the style acceptable ID must conform to and is using a basic right, freedom to travel, to leverage compliance.
That may be true, but whether the feds have the right to require ID for travel is a completely separate issue. Even if they didn't, they could still coerce states to comply in other ways. Maybe they could require a REAL ID compliant ID in order to fill out an I-9, for example.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
No Fly List compliance is accomplished when an airline ticket is purchase, TSA has little to do with that.
The TSA ID check is intended to make sure that the person checked against the no-fly list is actually the person who is flying. Otherwise, someone on the no-fly list could just buy a ticket under a different name and fly. Of course, we all know there are many ways to circumvent this, but that is the intention.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
People who believe in freedom are focused on all attempts by government to steal rights and freedoms from the people. The Real ID Act is a prime example, one that should put everyone on notice that government is overstepping.
Anytime the government does something that people don't like, they will automatically claim that their freedoms are being violated. I've heard Americans argue that raising taxes is an infringement on their freedom, the ACA is an infringement on their freedom, zoning is an infringement on their freedom, speed limits are an infringement on their freedom, etc. etc. etc.

There are certain things that the federal government does that violate people's basic freedoms that are guaranteed in the constitution. Telling states how to issue driver's license is not one of them.
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