FateSucks

Considering that Israelis are Middle Eastern, I would laugh if they try to use the "but your skintone is too "..." ........ when even among Middle Easterners (including Jews) that their skin tone varies from very light to dark brown.

As much as I would love to visit Israel, I do not approve of their profiling policies toward people based where they were born or people of ambigous physical appearances.

redadeco

Israel might be a ME country by geography, though ethnically speaking the largest ethnic group (and the most politically dominant i.e. who sets the rules) is definitely not ME.

84fiero

Skin bleachers (aka skin whiteners) are actual products that people do use to purposely lighten their natural complexion.

FateSucks

Majority of Israeli political elite are Ashkenazi Jews because they historically discriminated against their Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews in the 1950s to 1970s ( Jews hailing from North Africa/Iberian peninsula and Middle East, respectively). Even today, the discrimination exists when attending religious Jewish schools because Ashkenazi religious zealots do not want to intermingle with Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews. The latter groups are also the most likely to be poor and less successful than Ashkenazi.

And do you honestly believe that the original Jews before being kicked out of Israel by the Romans looked Northern and Western European? The Ashkenazi obviously intermarried with Europeans. Nothing wrong with that but to imply that Jews were never Middle Eastern despite their forefathers and mothers were is just plain mind boggling.

Besides, only half of the Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi...the others are Sephardi or Mizrahi with variety of complexions.

redadeco

We're veering off the main issue here, but personally I don't consider Israel to be a ME country. The Middle East (politicians and average joe alike) does not consider Israel as a neighbour.
Israel is a melting pot like Singapore or Canada with one ethnic group being dominant, but the majority of the population does not hail from there.

Here's the latest racial profiling scene documented at TLV (the last name in question is clearly Christian Arab that is common in the area), the questions being asked are silly to say the least:

bitterproffit

I used to have a lot of problems in Europe when I was much younger as I am very dark skinned and of Middle Eastern heritage. Not so much now.

But the strangest situation I had was last year in Boston. I went through the kiosk that takes your picture and it matched my passport so I went to the immigration agent. She asked for any other ID. I should have said I only have a passport, but I wasn't thinking so I pulled out my driver's license. She looked at the license and at my passport and said that they were obviously fake because it was the same picture. (I was wearing two different shirts, but whatever). She started browbeating me as to how they could be the same picture. She showed them to the agent next to her who told her to send me to some room. The entire time I just kept my mouth shut thinking 'is this for real?'. She kept accusing me of having a fake passport, then sneered at me, stamped the passport and told me to keep moving. Sometimes I wonder if she did that just to see my reaction and how I would respond. That is what convinced me to sign up for GE.

TWA884

Discussions of Israeli demographics, political "elite" and history that do not directly relate to racial or ethnic profiling of travelers belong in OMNI/PR.

Please move on.

Thank you,

TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator

GUWonder

GE is indeed a way to minimize the chances of being subjected to the whims of those engaged in racist profiling. It's also a way to get around the issue of dealing with people who have more problems reliably identifying people against photos when dealing with people who may be considered "the other". That said, some of the FRT used for passport control purposes is also problematic when dealing with people who are ethnic minorities of some sort.

bitterproffit

Good point and I agree. I just renewed my passport and I took the pic without glasses. That should help with the FRT technology at the GE kiosk where you have to take a pic without glasses. Plus, now my passport looks different from my dl.

GUWonder

The glasses removal for passport photos and for passport control camera use together make FRT use more effective and convenient in the main. The FRT use ends up as a way to disempower border control agents whose prejudices or ignorance may otherwise lead to passengers being subjected to the agents making some kinds of false claims over passenger identity.

televisor

I don't know where this FRT myth comes from. It's never been proven, it's never been documented, and people report having no issues with GE despite it photographing either their chest, or their forehead.

It is used in Europe/NZ (possibly elsewhere). Those machines have additional lighting, a camera that moves up an down, requires you to stand at a predefined spot, use the actual passport photo data, and take some time to verify your identity (and are usually backed up by humans verifying the photos).

:D!

In the UK (or at least in Great Britain. Northern Ireland has its own licensing authority), you use your passport photo to renew your DL, so the photo would be exactly the same.

(Since both documents currently only require photo updates every 10 years, I believe in the extreme case your DL could have a photo taken 20 years in the past - although then there would only be a minimal period where the photo on both documents is the same.)

You have to authorise the driver licensing agency to request a digital version of your photo from the passport office. If you don't want to do that, you do have the option of providing another photo.

GUWonder

Fingerprint recognition (matching) technology and facial recognition (matching) technology, separately or jointly, help to get some travelers (at ports of entry and/or exit) around some of the photo identity confusion issues that hit minorities of some sorts in ways that it doesn't hit others.

GE uses fingerprints, but the CBP still uses photos on GE and APC kiosk slips. And CBP can use GE members' photos too for FRT, but the GE kiosk pictures aren't all that reliable for that if/when even utilized for such.

bitterproffit

Not sure if it's a myth or not, but you can't wear glasses in the passport pic that you submit to get your US passport renewed anymore.

GUWonder

There's no myth about glasses messing up some FRT use -- it really may. Nor is it a myth that the US State Department prohibited eye glasses in new passport photos because of FRT use concerns -- it really does now.