surreycrv

Yup, the stories of looking for other peeps liquids to hustle thru inspection lays this click bait op in the open. A sjw tirade against the establishment. :Rollseyes:

FliesWay2Much

My late mother had my best interests at heart. TSA clerks don't. Lightyears of difference.

FliesWay2Much

You're right. They learn this on the job.

saizai

Not WEI.

Not WEI, AFAIK. (I assume there's some size of pressurized canisters that are dangerous at altitude, but I don't know what that is.)

Not WEI.


So… if it ain't WEI, and they can determine that's the case there is simply no justification for inquiring into medical necessity.


The FSD could be acting on authority from higher-ups. Generally office of general counsel or their designees have settlement authority; I'm not sure offhand where that reg is for DHS/TSA.

True, it's not a drug, nor is it medicine.

It is, however, an OTC medical item. As are the above. "Medical" just means "does it help someone's health in some way". And yes, food and water are medical under that definition (try surviving for a week without 'em) — and yes, I am happy to defend that.

FDA designation and status as a drug is completely irrelevant. Canes aren't drugs, either. My walking stick — and for that matter, my long white guide cane — have no FDA approval or regulation whatsoever that I know of.

I don't think you would claim that a blind person's guide cane isn't a medically necessary item — even though it obviously isn't a "medicine" or "drug".

The only relevant things are:
a) Is it possible WEI, such that TSA has any 4th Amendment administrative search authority to begin with? If yes, can it be cleared with the technology that TSA has available?
b) Is it FAA regulated as a possible danger to aircraft?
c) Does OP have a cognizable disability (which includes temporary disabilities)? If yes, does the item help with that disability? If yes, is it a reasonable accommodation to allow the item?


I disagree. I have multiple legitimate medical needs.

I do not believe it's appropriate to interrogate me about them.

To be more blunt, I think it is illegal for TSA to refuse to screen an item presented for screening that they are capable of screening for any reason whatsoever, let alone an inquiry into someone's medical status or needs.

I also think it's illegal for TSA to refuse to allow an item that it has screened and cleared to continue.


Do you seriously believe that TSA couldn't readily screen this, or that it flagged as WEI?

If not, why do you think it is appropriate for them to stop it?

Why do you think it's appropriate for you to question the OP's medical needs?


Speaking of…

To me that sounds like at least a temporary disability and direction of medical professional to use a specific item for medical purposes.

I am not a DDS, and I doubt any of y'all are either. It's not our place to second-guess the OP's.

The private medical info that the OP gave in response to this questioning is exactly
the sort of privacy that this kind of rule encourages violating.

Is the OP's TBI any of your business? Hell. No.

Is it relevant to whether the item is medically necessary? Yes.

Is it relevant to whether the item is WEI? Not in the least.


So when you talk about someone taking advantage of the system, not having "real" needs, etc: this is the kind of BS, intrusive, inappropriate questioning that I am routinely subjected to by TSA and others.

I'm pretty sick of people questioning what is or isn't a "real" need. I generally don't want to discuss my medical needs with people who have no need to know, or be in a position where I have to defend them or lose my rights.

Some of y'all talk as if allowing people bugspray, sunscreen, toothpaste, etc is wrong. How, exactly, is it wrong? Whom does it harm to allow anyone to take it that wants to take it? Who are you to ask whether it's necessary or not?

Is it unfair? Maybe. But the answer to that is not to challenge the people who manage to get things through TSA. It's to challenge TSA for stopping anyone from taking any non-WEI with them in any quantity they damn well please.


There are distinct issues there.

1. Law

See above.

2. TSA policy

TSA policy is that for any medical liquids (and presumably gels / aerosols as well) > 3.4oz, you should simply declare it as medical prior to it going through the x-ray.

If you do, they have to screen it. If they screen & clear it, it has to go…

… however, TSA also asserts, without any backing in law, an authority for FSDs to exercise "discretion" as to a "reasonable amount" of medical items people can take with them.

To my knowledge, this "discretion" is completely unguided, i.e. arbitrary and capricious almost by definition. That goes under another law, the APA (5 U.S. Code § 706).


I'd put that more harshly. Depending on exactly what was said and done, the cop was likely acting under color of law to reasonable observer, and issuing an (unlawful) order, which resulted in a 4th Amendment seizure of the OP's person and effects.

I remind y'all that the right to be free of unreasonable searches and seizures is just that: a right. It's not just for when some petty bureaucrat feels like letting you have a "reasonable" amount of that right, or when you show a enough "good cause" to do so.

The cop had no business doing anything other than enforce laws within the scope of his training — and perhaps to help serve as a neutral party, with everyone's consent, in order to help prevent a disturbance and generally be a decent human being.

Taking sides violates that, and turns the cop into an agent of the TSA… which both cops and TSA have always vigorously claimed never happens.

Often1

All very well and nice, but toothpaste still ain't either a drug or medicine. And it doesn't need to be. OP can stuff as many 100 ml. containers of the stuff as he wants into a 1 qt. bag and travel with that in his carry-on. And he can do that whether his doc thinks it's the right thing or whether he just loves to carry the stuff around.

The end of this gambit is that Arm & Hammer itself doesn't claim that its paste is either a medicine or a drug and that really is the end of it.

Loren Pechtel

Yup. The majority of my diet at this point is mail-order-only items. I can--and do--buy the calorie portion on arrival but I must bring everything else.

saizai

Often1: Did you even read my response to your comment? Your reply does not indicate any acknowledgement of anything I said.

Boggie Dog

Maybe he thinks you're wrong.

WillCAD

Nope. It ain't a drug, it ain't a medicine. You're completely right about that.

However, when specifically prescribed for use - whether by prescription pad or verbal instruction - by a licensed medical professional, it becomes a medically necessary item, and hence falls under the medically necessary exception to the LGA quantity limitation.

Something doesn't have to be a medicine to be medically necessary.

But you MUST (by law) be a licensed medical professional to override the instructions of another licensed medical professioanl by telling a patient whether they do or do not have a legitimate medical need for an item. Any TSO attempting to countermand a licensed medical professional's instructions to a patient, by limiting access to prescribed medically necessary items, is by definition practicing medicine without a license.

In plainer words - doctor say, drink lots THIS juice. TSO say, can't bring THAT juice - use other juice. TSO not doctor - doctor instruction win.

alanR

So you have to do is claim that your bomb or boxcutter is a medical necessity and you can carry it on board.

flyerCO

This. People don't understand that TSOs aren't saying what's medically necessary. Instead they're saying what qualifies to be allowed past security as medically necessary. Two entirely different things. Water is necessary for life, but TSA can refuse to allow it through. You have no given right to get past security with whatever you want. The law restricts items from coming through unless TSA determines it is allowed. They have discretion in that matter.

Ditto

Because those are such rare items that cannot be purchased once pax arrives at their destination?

Boggie Dog

No, if you claim your bomb or boxcutter as a medical item it gets a more thorough screening. If the item is actually a bomb it should be interdicted by TSA.

Remember, TSA is only permitted to restrict WEI.

gingersnaps

Not relevant.

JoeBas

Ladies and Gentlemen, IRROPS.