Cruel & Illegal Actions by the Customs & Border Patrol
Oct 6, 2016, 8:01 am
#16
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
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When it comes to foreign citizens who have US driver's licenses but ended up moving from the US, huge numbers of such persons do not surrender their US driving licenses or even updating their addresses with the DMV (or its equivalent). After 9/11, this kind of stuff made for some very interesting investigations -- and lots of wild goose chases -- in certain metro areas with a history of having had lots of foreign students from the MENA region.
Could it be that the OP, despite his protestations, is actually trying to game the K1 process and system? Could be and again goes to intention. Certainly if somebody has some nefarious reason for gaining entrance to the US they certainly aren't going to state it.
Right, wrong, or indifferently the government in the K1 process has taken on at least the partial role of protecting us from ourselves.
Last edited by Randyk47; Oct 6, 2016 at 8:08 am
Oct 6, 2016, 8:07 am
#17
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Knoteetingham
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May not be the case, but I would expect it to be a better than even money bet. Would not be the first case and won't be the last, whether the result was an LPR or passport (not familiar with the US rules on these).
Oct 6, 2016, 9:25 am
#18
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Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
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I will relate my own experience from 22 years ago when CBP was INS, but I think it may still be relevant.
I met my now-wife when I was on a business trip in China. I'll skip the story of our courtship, but eventually we applied for, and she received, a K1 (fiancee) visa. She flew into LAX -- this was back when you could meet arriving aircraft -- I saw her disembark and waved to her as she to Customs and Immigration. I waited for her until all the passengers had exited, but she did not come out. I told an officer that my fiancee was on the flight but still hadn't exited. He asked me for her name and then disappeared into the sterile area.
A few minutes later, a man in a suit with a name tag came out and asked me for her I-129F form (the notice that INS sent confirming that the K1 visa would issue). I told him that she had surrendered the original at the US Consulate in Guangzhou, as she was required to do to obtain the visa. He asked me if I had a copy. I said I did, but it was at home, and I was aware of no requirement that either of us have a copy at the port of entry. He told me I would have to go home and get it (a 4-hour round trip at that time of day).
I was worried about my fiancee so, at that point, I pulled out my business card and my California Bar card and told him, "I'm not only her fiancee, I'm also her attorney. I demand to see my client." This ruffled him a bit, but he agreed to bring her out.
After a few minutes she came out, accompanied by the suited official and two uniformed INS officers. Needless to say, she was relieved to see me and we embraced. The lead official said, "Okay, you've seen her, now you have to get the I129-F form." I said, "Are you detaining her?" He said, "No, but she's not leaving the airport until you get the form." I said, "I'm not going to make a 4-hour round trip for something that is not a requirement, but I'll tell you what I will do. I'm going to head downtown, find a federal judge and get a Writ of Mandate, and it will not be directed just at INS but also at you personally." I should note that this was pure bluff -- I don't practice immigration law and had no idea whether I could get one or not.
The lead official looked uncomfortable and finally said, "Okay, I'll release her to your custody (!!), but you'll have to go to the INS office within 3 weeks and present a copy of the I129-F." I said, "Fine, as long as she comes home with me right now."
The official said, "Okay, then, she can leave with you. We're done here." By this time, my now-wife was more than a little upset; not surprising, since she had just traveled for 14 hours from a totalitarian country to one that she thought was a land of freedom. I said, "No, we're not done. You look at my fiancee, smile, and say, 'Welcome to the United States,' like you mean it."
And he did.
From the OP's post, it appears not much has changed.
I met my now-wife when I was on a business trip in China. I'll skip the story of our courtship, but eventually we applied for, and she received, a K1 (fiancee) visa. She flew into LAX -- this was back when you could meet arriving aircraft -- I saw her disembark and waved to her as she to Customs and Immigration. I waited for her until all the passengers had exited, but she did not come out. I told an officer that my fiancee was on the flight but still hadn't exited. He asked me for her name and then disappeared into the sterile area.
A few minutes later, a man in a suit with a name tag came out and asked me for her I-129F form (the notice that INS sent confirming that the K1 visa would issue). I told him that she had surrendered the original at the US Consulate in Guangzhou, as she was required to do to obtain the visa. He asked me if I had a copy. I said I did, but it was at home, and I was aware of no requirement that either of us have a copy at the port of entry. He told me I would have to go home and get it (a 4-hour round trip at that time of day).
I was worried about my fiancee so, at that point, I pulled out my business card and my California Bar card and told him, "I'm not only her fiancee, I'm also her attorney. I demand to see my client." This ruffled him a bit, but he agreed to bring her out.
After a few minutes she came out, accompanied by the suited official and two uniformed INS officers. Needless to say, she was relieved to see me and we embraced. The lead official said, "Okay, you've seen her, now you have to get the I129-F form." I said, "Are you detaining her?" He said, "No, but she's not leaving the airport until you get the form." I said, "I'm not going to make a 4-hour round trip for something that is not a requirement, but I'll tell you what I will do. I'm going to head downtown, find a federal judge and get a Writ of Mandate, and it will not be directed just at INS but also at you personally." I should note that this was pure bluff -- I don't practice immigration law and had no idea whether I could get one or not.
The lead official looked uncomfortable and finally said, "Okay, I'll release her to your custody (!!), but you'll have to go to the INS office within 3 weeks and present a copy of the I129-F." I said, "Fine, as long as she comes home with me right now."
The official said, "Okay, then, she can leave with you. We're done here." By this time, my now-wife was more than a little upset; not surprising, since she had just traveled for 14 hours from a totalitarian country to one that she thought was a land of freedom. I said, "No, we're not done. You look at my fiancee, smile, and say, 'Welcome to the United States,' like you mean it."
And he did.
From the OP's post, it appears not much has changed.
Oct 6, 2016, 11:30 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Posts: 4,332
I will relate my own experience from 22 years ago when CBP was INS, but I think it may still be relevant.
I met my now-wife when I was on a business trip in China. I'll skip the story of our courtship, but eventually we applied for, and she received, a K1 (fiancee) visa. She flew into LAX -- this was back when you could meet arriving aircraft -- I saw her disembark and waved to her as she to Customs and Immigration. I waited for her until all the passengers had exited, but she did not come out. I told an officer that my fiancee was on the flight but still hadn't exited. He asked me for her name and then disappeared into the sterile area.
A few minutes later, a man in a suit with a name tag came out and asked me for her I-129F form (the notice that INS sent confirming that the K1 visa would issue). I told him that she had surrendered the original at the US Consulate in Guangzhou, as she was required to do to obtain the visa. He asked me if I had a copy. I said I did, but it was at home, and I was aware of no requirement that either of us have a copy at the port of entry. He told me I would have to go home and get it (a 4-hour round trip at that time of day).
I was worried about my fiancee so, at that point, I pulled out my business card and my California Bar card and told him, "I'm not only her fiancee, I'm also her attorney. I demand to see my client." This ruffled him a bit, but he agreed to bring her out.
After a few minutes she came out, accompanied by the suited official and two uniformed INS officers. Needless to say, she was relieved to see me and we embraced. The lead official said, "Okay, you've seen her, now you have to get the I129-F form." I said, "Are you detaining her?" He said, "No, but she's not leaving the airport until you get the form." I said, "I'm not going to make a 4-hour round trip for something that is not a requirement, but I'll tell you what I will do. I'm going to head downtown, find a federal judge and get a Writ of Mandate, and it will not be directed just at INS but also at you personally." I should note that this was pure bluff -- I don't practice immigration law and had no idea whether I could get one or not.
The lead official looked uncomfortable and finally said, "Okay, I'll release her to your custody (!!), but you'll have to go to the INS office within 3 weeks and present a copy of the I129-F." I said, "Fine, as long as she comes home with me right now."
The official said, "Okay, then, she can leave with you. We're done here." By this time, my now-wife was more than a little upset; not surprising, since she had just traveled for 14 hours from a totalitarian country to one that she thought was a land of freedom. I said, "No, we're not done. You look at my fiancee, smile, and say, 'Welcome to the United States,' like you mean it."
And he did.
From the OP's post, it appears not much has changed.
I met my now-wife when I was on a business trip in China. I'll skip the story of our courtship, but eventually we applied for, and she received, a K1 (fiancee) visa. She flew into LAX -- this was back when you could meet arriving aircraft -- I saw her disembark and waved to her as she to Customs and Immigration. I waited for her until all the passengers had exited, but she did not come out. I told an officer that my fiancee was on the flight but still hadn't exited. He asked me for her name and then disappeared into the sterile area.
A few minutes later, a man in a suit with a name tag came out and asked me for her I-129F form (the notice that INS sent confirming that the K1 visa would issue). I told him that she had surrendered the original at the US Consulate in Guangzhou, as she was required to do to obtain the visa. He asked me if I had a copy. I said I did, but it was at home, and I was aware of no requirement that either of us have a copy at the port of entry. He told me I would have to go home and get it (a 4-hour round trip at that time of day).
I was worried about my fiancee so, at that point, I pulled out my business card and my California Bar card and told him, "I'm not only her fiancee, I'm also her attorney. I demand to see my client." This ruffled him a bit, but he agreed to bring her out.
After a few minutes she came out, accompanied by the suited official and two uniformed INS officers. Needless to say, she was relieved to see me and we embraced. The lead official said, "Okay, you've seen her, now you have to get the I129-F form." I said, "Are you detaining her?" He said, "No, but she's not leaving the airport until you get the form." I said, "I'm not going to make a 4-hour round trip for something that is not a requirement, but I'll tell you what I will do. I'm going to head downtown, find a federal judge and get a Writ of Mandate, and it will not be directed just at INS but also at you personally." I should note that this was pure bluff -- I don't practice immigration law and had no idea whether I could get one or not.
The lead official looked uncomfortable and finally said, "Okay, I'll release her to your custody (!!), but you'll have to go to the INS office within 3 weeks and present a copy of the I129-F." I said, "Fine, as long as she comes home with me right now."
The official said, "Okay, then, she can leave with you. We're done here." By this time, my now-wife was more than a little upset; not surprising, since she had just traveled for 14 hours from a totalitarian country to one that she thought was a land of freedom. I said, "No, we're not done. You look at my fiancee, smile, and say, 'Welcome to the United States,' like you mean it."
And he did.
From the OP's post, it appears not much has changed.
Oct 6, 2016, 1:00 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,410
Have to admit after careful rereading of the OP's post I've at least temporarily turned off the "sympathy meter". Would be interested to know how a CPB agent just happened to know that the OP had been married to a Russian woman years ago and was now supposedly divorced? The picture of the ex-wife business notwithstanding it seems to me that subsequent to the K1 application that CBP discovered or at least think they discovered some issue(s) with the exact status and whereabouts of this ex-wife. They're divorced and supposedly the ex has moved back to Russia but her driver's license still is registered to the OP's address after several years? Certainly possible but I can't blame CBP for being interested. I'll also admit, and maybe my bad, that I'm sometimes suspicious of one-time "drive by" rant postings where the OP never comes back to explain, answer questions, etc.
Oct 6, 2016, 1:10 pm
#21
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Agree and that's probably the problem for CBP. The ex's license hasn't expired and it still shows her address as the same as the OP's. To them it's basically circumstantial evidence that she may still be there living with the OP. I'm guessing it's a red flag and the OP's newly intended either couldn't, didn't, or wasn't allowed to explain that. Add that CBP really can't or doesn't track exits from the US CBP probably has no idea of exactly where she is other than the limited indications like her DL.
Oct 6, 2016, 1:16 pm
#22
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Agree and that's probably the problem for CBP. The ex's license hasn't expired and it still shows her address as the same as the OP's. To them it's basically circumstantial evidence that she may still be there living with the OP. I'm guessing it's a red flag and the OP's newly intended either couldn't, didn't, or wasn't allowed to explain that.
Oct 6, 2016, 1:28 pm
#23
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Like what controls? Matching names off of aircraft passenger manifests? That's far from a failsafe process. We travel OCONUS frequently and not once has anybody but the airline asked for my passport and at best it's a glance to make sure it's me and hasn't expired. I don't put much faith in the government's ability to track anybody. Heck I came across an official and supposedly accurate DoD system that still showed me married to my ex some ten years after we had divorced.
Oct 6, 2016, 1:52 pm
#24
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Like what controls? Matching names off of aircraft passenger manifests? That's far from a failsafe process. We travel OCONUS frequently and not once has anybody but the airline asked for my passport and at best it's a glance to make sure it's me and hasn't expired. I don't put much faith in the government's ability to track anybody. Heck I came across an official and supposedly accurate DoD system that still showed me married to my ex some ten years after we had divorced.
My air travel record (for the past several years) on file with the government -- and I am only a US citizen using a US passport -- is very extensive despite how and how very frequently I travel out of and into the US.
Oct 6, 2016, 2:20 pm
#25
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Do you know anyone from a US VWP country that enters the US frequently with ESTAs? Ask them to get their electronic I94 record and see how complete they think it is for trips within the past five years.
My air travel record (for the past several years) on file with the government -- and I am only a US citizen using a US passport -- is very extensive despite how and how very frequently I travel out of and into the US.
My air travel record (for the past several years) on file with the government -- and I am only a US citizen using a US passport -- is very extensive despite how and how very frequently I travel out of and into the US.
Oct 6, 2016, 2:45 pm
#26
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Moderator's Note: Please let's get back on topic
There are several active threads discussing US immigration exit controls.
Thank you,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Thank you,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Oct 6, 2016, 3:06 pm
#27
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The OP indeed hasn't even logged back into FT since posting this thread.
Rather interesting that someone would post such a long first post and then never return to the thread to even view it while logged in. Hopefully this doesn't mean that there's really nothing more left to find out about what took place.
Rather interesting that someone would post such a long first post and then never return to the thread to even view it while logged in. Hopefully this doesn't mean that there's really nothing more left to find out about what took place.
Oct 6, 2016, 3:35 pm
#28
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The OP indeed hasn't even logged back into FT since posting this thread.
Rather interesting that someone would post such a long first post and then never return to the thread to even view it while logged in. Hopefully this doesn't mean that there's really nothing more left to find out about what took place.
Rather interesting that someone would post such a long first post and then never return to the thread to even view it while logged in. Hopefully this doesn't mean that there's really nothing more left to find out about what took place.
Oct 6, 2016, 8:35 pm
#30
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