Another story of abuse of a disabled passenger
Sep 18, 2016, 9:16 am
#46
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
I can't reiterate too often that when that happens you need to file a complaint with the DHS OIG. That office needs to know what's happening to passengers at the hands of screeners and you can be sure TSA isn't sharing the complaints it gets with that office. Get and name names if at all possible.
Don't file with the TSA.
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/hotline/hotline.php
Don't file with the TSA.
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/hotline/hotline.php
Do file a formal FTCA claim for money damages with TSA.
Frankly it's more likely to work than the IG. The IG knows perfectly well that it's an issue. They've not changed anything. But having to pay out $$$$ for passenger injury complaints? Yeah, that'll get attention.
Don't forget that tort "injuries" can include things like "infliction of emotional distress", "false light", etc. Up to you to quantify those, and to determine if they apply to your situation.
Do note that for filing an FTCA claim, 28 USC 1346 and 28 USC Ch 171, they want you to specify an exact amount of money you want them to pay you; you have to wait 6 months before you sue and you have to file a claim within 2 years of being damaged, 28 U.S. Code § 2401 — though if it's not our fault that it's late, the 2y limit can be extended by courts, US v Wong.
Nothing here is legal advice, obviously.
But as my political opinion: make 'em pay for it and it'll be more likely to have an effect than anything else, short of an injunction.
Sep 18, 2016, 10:05 am
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Correction: don't file with TSA Contact Center.
Do file a formal FTCA claim for money damages with TSA.
Frankly it's more likely to work than the IG. The IG knows perfectly well that it's an issue. They've not changed anything. But having to pay out $$$$ for passenger injury complaints? Yeah, that'll get attention.
Don't forget that tort "injuries" can include things like "infliction of emotional distress", "false light", etc. Up to you to quantify those, and to determine if they apply to your situation.
Do note that for filing an FTCA claim, 28 USC 1346 and 28 USC Ch 171, they want you to specify an exact amount of money you want them to pay you; you have to wait 6 months before you sue and you have to file a claim within 2 years of being damaged, 28 U.S. Code § 2401 — though if it's not our fault that it's late, the 2y limit can be extended by courts, US v Wong.
Nothing here is legal advice, obviously.
But as my political opinion: make 'em pay for it and it'll be more likely to have an effect than anything else, short of an injunction.
Do file a formal FTCA claim for money damages with TSA.
Frankly it's more likely to work than the IG. The IG knows perfectly well that it's an issue. They've not changed anything. But having to pay out $$$$ for passenger injury complaints? Yeah, that'll get attention.
Don't forget that tort "injuries" can include things like "infliction of emotional distress", "false light", etc. Up to you to quantify those, and to determine if they apply to your situation.
Do note that for filing an FTCA claim, 28 USC 1346 and 28 USC Ch 171, they want you to specify an exact amount of money you want them to pay you; you have to wait 6 months before you sue and you have to file a claim within 2 years of being damaged, 28 U.S. Code § 2401 — though if it's not our fault that it's late, the 2y limit can be extended by courts, US v Wong.
Nothing here is legal advice, obviously.
But as my political opinion: make 'em pay for it and it'll be more likely to have an effect than anything else, short of an injunction.
Better to file with the IG immediately while an incident is fresh in your mind and better for the IG's office to be inundated with complaints. They can't do anything about it, even if they know screeners are being abusive, unless they have specific complaints to address.
Sep 18, 2016, 10:26 am
#48
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
I can't reiterate too often that when that happens you need to file a complaint with the DHS OIG. That office needs to know what's happening to passengers at the hands of screeners and you can be sure TSA isn't sharing the complaints it gets with that office. Get and name names if at all possible.
Don't file with the TSA.
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/hotline/hotline.php
Don't file with the TSA.
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/hotline/hotline.php
Sep 18, 2016, 11:59 am
#49
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
I already lead an overbooked, high stress life. Filing complaints that will be ignored, that have zero chance of accomplishing anything, is a time waster I'm not willing to do. Those have the resources to take the situation to court may accomplish something, but the average complaint will get you nothing but a form letter. Been there, done that - written to TSA, my senator, my representative. Now I do what I have to get to through the check points and get on the plane.
Having had some success with the IG, I still say that's the way to go and the form doesn't take more than about 5-10 minutes to complete.
Sep 18, 2016, 12:24 pm
#50
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
Except for the part about don't file with TSA Contact Center, I have to disagree.
Better to file with the IG immediately while an incident is fresh in your mind and better for the IG's office to be inundated with complaints. They can't do anything about it, even if they know screeners are being abusive, unless they have specific complaints to address.
Better to file with the IG immediately while an incident is fresh in your mind and better for the IG's office to be inundated with complaints. They can't do anything about it, even if they know screeners are being abusive, unless they have specific complaints to address.
Sep 18, 2016, 6:30 pm
#52
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
FTCA requires that for tort claims, you file the claim within 2 years of the harm (unless there's equitable tolling), and you can only sue for it after they've denied the claim or you've waited for 6 months without getting a response to the claim.
You don't have to wait to make the FTCA claim. In fact, you could file it as soon as you leave the checkpoint.
Sep 21, 2016, 9:06 am
#54
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100% credible, based on the experiences of myself and family.
AskTSA would say "Sorry. Oops. Our bad." Maybe a "we'll (hahahaha) forward your concerns to someone who doesn't (hahahhaha) care".
Never "We would like details, we will immediately review tapes and follow-up to ensure that this doesn't happen again at any airport".
AskTSA would say "Sorry. Oops. Our bad." Maybe a "we'll (hahahaha) forward your concerns to someone who doesn't (hahahhaha) care".
Never "We would like details, we will immediately review tapes and follow-up to ensure that this doesn't happen again at any airport".
Sep 21, 2016, 9:13 am
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
I honestly believe that you are sorry that I have had some unpleasant experiences with TSA and its employees and I appreciate that.
The problem I see that there is very little concern on the part of senior TSA employees to make sure that such things never happen. I can understand that the daily drone of clearing people through screening can be pretty mind numbing and lead to complacency and other problems.
But that does not excuse in any way the overbearing, authority asserting, loud mouthed TSA screeners that seem to infest every checkpoint.
As a counter point, I went through DAL and LAS in May of this year and the screeners at those locations were pleasant. Screening was quick and I was on my way. That is how it should be every time.
Unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. Which is why having a Secret Traveler (shopper) program could be very beneficial to TSA in finding those TSA employees who work at making travel just as difficult for people as they can.
The problem I see that there is very little concern on the part of senior TSA employees to make sure that such things never happen. I can understand that the daily drone of clearing people through screening can be pretty mind numbing and lead to complacency and other problems.
But that does not excuse in any way the overbearing, authority asserting, loud mouthed TSA screeners that seem to infest every checkpoint.
As a counter point, I went through DAL and LAS in May of this year and the screeners at those locations were pleasant. Screening was quick and I was on my way. That is how it should be every time.
Unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. Which is why having a Secret Traveler (shopper) program could be very beneficial to TSA in finding those TSA employees who work at making travel just as difficult for people as they can.
Sep 21, 2016, 9:26 am
#56
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My thinking on this has evolved, BD.
TSA's idea of 'secret shopper' is some manager's pet who doesn't want to work too hard but who isn't eligible for promotion to BDO.
For a 'secret shopper' approach to work, the 'shopper' has to be from outside TSA/DHS, ideally a civilian hired expressly for that purpose.
It isn't just senior management who don't care. As I've posted before, whenever there's a TSO barking and abusing people, there are plenty of other TSOs, LTSOs, STSOs, BDOs and the occasional suit witnessing the behavior and doing absolutely nothing about it.
TSA's idea of 'secret shopper' is some manager's pet who doesn't want to work too hard but who isn't eligible for promotion to BDO.
For a 'secret shopper' approach to work, the 'shopper' has to be from outside TSA/DHS, ideally a civilian hired expressly for that purpose.
It isn't just senior management who don't care. As I've posted before, whenever there's a TSO barking and abusing people, there are plenty of other TSOs, LTSOs, STSOs, BDOs and the occasional suit witnessing the behavior and doing absolutely nothing about it.
Sep 21, 2016, 11:41 am
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
My thinking on this has evolved, BD.
TSA's idea of 'secret shopper' is some manager's pet who doesn't want to work too hard but who isn't eligible for promotion to BDO.
For a 'secret shopper' approach to work, the 'shopper' has to be from outside TSA/DHS, ideally a civilian hired expressly for that purpose.
It isn't just senior management who don't care. As I've posted before, whenever there's a TSO barking and abusing people, there are plenty of other TSOs, LTSOs, STSOs, BDOs and the occasional suit witnessing the behavior and doing absolutely nothing about it.
TSA's idea of 'secret shopper' is some manager's pet who doesn't want to work too hard but who isn't eligible for promotion to BDO.
For a 'secret shopper' approach to work, the 'shopper' has to be from outside TSA/DHS, ideally a civilian hired expressly for that purpose.
It isn't just senior management who don't care. As I've posted before, whenever there's a TSO barking and abusing people, there are plenty of other TSOs, LTSOs, STSOs, BDOs and the occasional suit witnessing the behavior and doing absolutely nothing about it.
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Sep 21, 2016 at 1:05 pm
Sep 21, 2016, 1:02 pm
#58
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Sep 21, 2016, 1:48 pm
#60
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