k374

So, coming back from JNB to LAX I was flagged SSSS at random on the LHR-LAX segment of my ticket. The lady at the check in counter told me that I was selected for "profiling" at either LHR or LAX as she put it taking me aback at bit so I started reading about this a bit.

I came to find out that CBP can go through all the content on your phone, laptop and even seize it for hours not affording you any privacy at all with regard to your information.

The theory is that the USA as a sovereign state has a right to inspect, control and admit all property that enters it's borders whether it is physical or virtual.

What do you guys think about this? Is it going a bit too far? Luckily for me my laptop and phone was just inspected at the gate in LHR when I was called to secondary but they did not ask me to power it up. But the concept of agents going through my personal emails and files disturbs me greatly and seems to be an invasion of privacy. Surely there have to be some privacy laws that protect people as well?

pewpew

Few. If you're worried, your best bet is just to fly nonstop to a destination in the ninth circuit.

That said, the UK, Canada, etc can all also inspect your electronics, and you'll find fewer protections in the UK -- they've jailed people for failing to decrypt devices.

gfunkdave

They almost never go to such lengths unless they're already suspicious of you. SSSS is not the same as a US Customs inspection. It's an airline security thing. I don't think they're related.

If you're truly that worried, backup your phone and wipe it before leaving on your trip. Then, when you're safely at your destination, restore from backup.

Often1

You are confusing a secondary inspection by either carrier security at LHR or TSA at LAX with CBP's inspection at the border (TSA).

You may want to consider asking a Moderator to move your post to OMNI where policy discussions generally belong.

k374

oh, I thought SSSS was sent by CBP to the airlines, that is what I was told by a representative of the airline. Apparently she was mistaken then.

gfunkdave

She was mistaken or lying. SSSS is TSA and its various forms of "Do Not Fly" lists. Nothing to do with CBP.

This thread should really be in the Travel Safety/Security forums. I'm asked a mod to move it.

bobert24

You'll be hard pressed to find many countries that don't have laws along this line. This is pretty standard. As others have pointed out, you actually have more rights in the US than you do in many other places.

GUWonder

The SSSS flagging -- which I consider to be haraSSSSment flagging and resulting screening -- comes about by two primary means:

1. DHS/TSA kicking back the indicator when check-in occurs -- the indicator kickback is a result of automated hits;
2. Airline/airline security contractor-based selection -- the indicator kickback may involve automated selection but sometimes involves manual selection.

At LHR, there is DHS/CBP's IAP in play also. CBP employees working IAP can lead to passengers being flagged down for gate-area secondary screening at LHR.

Generally the haraSSSSment flagging and screening -- a secondary, gate-area screening of flag-hit passengers at non-US airports -- is independent of CBP secondary searches at US ports of entry.

CBP gets access to airline PNRs, and so anything they get that way can be used in some way.

JY1024

Moving this over to the appropriate Travel Safety/Security forum for further discussion. Thanks. /JY1024, TravelBuzz co-moderator

jphripjah

The OP previously posted about getting extra pages for his or her US passport, so I will assume the OP is still an American.

You should protect your phone/laptop with a password. If CBP asks you for the password, say no. I've done that. They threatened to seize the phone and laptop but then just let me go.

CBP can turn on and look through any electronic devices at the border, for any reason, or for no reason at all. But if you land at LAX and they want to seize your password-protected phone to de-encrypt it, they need "reasonable suspicion" that you're a criminal.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-...tronics-158891

k374

Just to ressurect this thread... I now use a Bitlocker volume. I will not mount this volume so nobody will even know it is there This is wise anyway for any laptop you are traveling with to protect your personal information!

Regarding saying no to the password, not sure I want to risk my $$$$ Surface Pro 4 from being seized.

They can still read my emails though...well, don't care about that, I don't have anything of interest in my emails anyway.

In my view, as I understand the law, the US has the sovereign right to allow/disallow items - physical or virtual that exist on that specific device that I am importing. This should mean that they cannot access my email or social media as that information is contained in the cloud. I'm thinking this could be legally challenged. I am not importing my gmail into the US, they don't have a right to connect to an external service on the cloud and download that information. They can only inspect and/or seize information that is resident on that device... am I right here?

jphripjah

Interesting question. They are allowed to turn on phones and look through them, so if your phone is connected to the internet and hitting the Facebook or messenger buttons brings up all your FB chat, they would see that. I'm not sure that's forbidden.

Again, I think when CBP asks for a computer or phone password, American citizens should say no. They can threaten to seize willy nilly, but they need reasonable suspicion to seize, at least in the 9th Circuit, and the threat to seize is often a bluff.

If a cop asks to search your house for no reason, I'd also recommend saying no, notwithstanding that he will threaten to come back with a warrant and ten men and tear the place apart, etc.

Don't be duped into consenting to otherwise unlawful searches by silly threats.

chucko

CPB wouldn't signal that they're going to pull you in for secondary on arrival, otherwise there'd be a lot of body carriers guzzling laxatives in the loo on the way over.

Both are part of DHS, so maybe the agent didn't get the distinction.

k374

True.

If I log out of my Gmail for instance they have no right to ask for my gmail password to log BACK in to my Gmail to inspect because that would mean they are overstepping their authority and going into the cloud.

It's not that I have anything to hide anywhere but I want civil liberties to be protected. Under the guise of terrorism these <redacted> are now strongarming, threatening and scaring regular decent people who are just going about their business.

jphripjah

I think they have the right to "ask" just about anything they want. They are federal law enforcement agents, they can ask questions unrelated to your luggage. If they ask for a passenger's gmail account, and the passenger gives it to them, and they have a look at the emails, I don't THINK that's a constitutional violation. As a general rule, police officers can "ask" you do/give them anything and if you consent, there's no constitutional violation.

If someone has contrary legal authority saying this is a constitutional violation, I'd be interested in reading it.

Unfortunately, many people don't understand the nuances between when an officer is ordering them to do something and when that same guy (with a badge, gun, and uniform) who is detaining them is merely "requesting" their voluntary consent for something. Compounding the problem is that cops are deliberately vague about this. A CBP officer won't take out your phone and say "I'd like you to voluntarily enter your password, but of course you have the absolute right to refuse." Instead, he'll just say "Could you enter the password?" which a layperson won't know he can refuse. Then the officer will report that the passenger voluntarily entered it of his own freewill.