10 years since the liquid ban went into effect
Aug 29, 2016, 9:05 am
#16
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This freedom wasn't surrendered, government stole it.
Aug 29, 2016, 9:28 am
#17
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Ten years. Wow!
On that fateful day, I was in a hotel near BWI with a fairly early flight. I turned on the news and there were the initial reports from Europe. Uh oh. OK Ink, time to get to the airport and fast.
I got to security just as they were putting up the quickly photocopied signs. Not too bad when I went thorough, but within 15 minutes they had locked it all down and the lines were beginning to stretch out the door. Many, many people missed flights. A FA on my flight had just restocked her very expensive cosmetics and the TSA took $300 worth. On that first day, at least at BWI, it became illegal to sell water or liquids inside the secure area. There was the fear that the materials had already been brought in and were awaiting purchase. Bath and Body Works simply closed up.
The ridiculous insanity calmed down after a while and it became regular insanity. That has remained for ten years.
On that fateful day, I was in a hotel near BWI with a fairly early flight. I turned on the news and there were the initial reports from Europe. Uh oh. OK Ink, time to get to the airport and fast.
I got to security just as they were putting up the quickly photocopied signs. Not too bad when I went thorough, but within 15 minutes they had locked it all down and the lines were beginning to stretch out the door. Many, many people missed flights. A FA on my flight had just restocked her very expensive cosmetics and the TSA took $300 worth. On that first day, at least at BWI, it became illegal to sell water or liquids inside the secure area. There was the fear that the materials had already been brought in and were awaiting purchase. Bath and Body Works simply closed up.
The ridiculous insanity calmed down after a while and it became regular insanity. That has remained for ten years.
Aug 29, 2016, 9:59 am
#18
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The trend of people bringing their own empty water bottles through security and filling at drinking fountains has most likely cut into that revenue in the US. There will always be people who buy bottled water at Hudson News or soft drinks at the food courts, but a lot of travelers are wise to the scam and bring their own water bottles. I use a Brita bottle with a filter, so I can fill it from either a drinking fountain or from a restroom sink and don't need to deal with any unpleasant flavor.
Some airport food courts also have self-service beverage stations, and I have yet to find one that doesn't offer free water and ice, so in many places it's possible to get ice water, rather than room temp water from the drinking fountains.
And on at least some flights, beverage service including water and soft drinks is included with the fare, so it is possible to get refills on board at no extra cost.
So I don't think it's largely an economic issue. I think mostly it's an issue of paranoia - too many Americans have seen Die Hard With a Vengeance and believe that "binary liquid explosives" which have enough energy in a single milliliter droplet to blow a chair two meters in the air are a real thing, and must be kept off airplanes.
Some airport food courts also have self-service beverage stations, and I have yet to find one that doesn't offer free water and ice, so in many places it's possible to get ice water, rather than room temp water from the drinking fountains.
And on at least some flights, beverage service including water and soft drinks is included with the fare, so it is possible to get refills on board at no extra cost.
So I don't think it's largely an economic issue. I think mostly it's an issue of paranoia - too many Americans have seen Die Hard With a Vengeance and believe that "binary liquid explosives" which have enough energy in a single milliliter droplet to blow a chair two meters in the air are a real thing, and must be kept off airplanes.
If there were no liquid ban, I would for example certainly bring a can of beer or two . Due to the liquid ban this is impossible, and this has led me to sometimes buy beer at the airport or in the airplane (if buy-on-board service). Or perhaps some people would have brought a thermos with coffee with them were there no liquid ban, which is now impossible, leading to revenue from buying coffee at the airport or (if buy on board) on the plane, etc. etc.
Of course the revenue is there largely for LCCs, as you can get most liquids you need for free on full service airlines.
Aug 29, 2016, 10:01 am
#19
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I also had a flight within the first few days of the ban (when it was no liquids at all). The security area was crazy. Lines were huge and people were freaking out because they had to throw out their favorite perfume or mascara. Compared to that, the current rules aren't too bad - they just force me to pack more efficiently 
Aug 29, 2016, 11:37 am
#20
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The liquid ban will never go away. Not for security reasons, but for economical reasons.
- People cant bring bottles of drink and some food stuffs and other products for personal care on board, so they will buy on board (airline revenue) or buy duty free (airport revenue)
- Many LCCs dont have free checked baggage (many mainline too, in the lowest fare classes), and due to the liquid ban you cannot bring all of your necessary items with you. This leads more people to buying checked baggage = airline revenue. (or buy duty free = airport revenue)
- Even if people don't buy duty free or on-board and cant/wont buy checked bags, they will buy their necessary items at their destination, or, on the way back, perhaps throw away some of the excess they bought there. In any case, it's a nice little economical boost. The more people buy and throw away , the more taxes are paid.
- As for the safety side f things, I am sure one could hide some nasty surprises in what looks like a bottle of water. But why then can you bring an entire suitcase full of 'liquids' (which could theoretically have some magical liquid explosive substance) that could blow up the entire plane from the cargo hold? And why can I bring/buy duty free a variety of objects which could potentially also be hazardous? I can bring my lighter and buy some strong booze duty free and start a pretty damn nasty fire in a plane, and I would have bought/brought all of it legally. I have even seen a tv documentary on the nasty bombs you could make with only duty free items....
- People cant bring bottles of drink and some food stuffs and other products for personal care on board, so they will buy on board (airline revenue) or buy duty free (airport revenue)
- Many LCCs dont have free checked baggage (many mainline too, in the lowest fare classes), and due to the liquid ban you cannot bring all of your necessary items with you. This leads more people to buying checked baggage = airline revenue. (or buy duty free = airport revenue)
- Even if people don't buy duty free or on-board and cant/wont buy checked bags, they will buy their necessary items at their destination, or, on the way back, perhaps throw away some of the excess they bought there. In any case, it's a nice little economical boost. The more people buy and throw away , the more taxes are paid.
- As for the safety side f things, I am sure one could hide some nasty surprises in what looks like a bottle of water. But why then can you bring an entire suitcase full of 'liquids' (which could theoretically have some magical liquid explosive substance) that could blow up the entire plane from the cargo hold? And why can I bring/buy duty free a variety of objects which could potentially also be hazardous? I can bring my lighter and buy some strong booze duty free and start a pretty damn nasty fire in a plane, and I would have bought/brought all of it legally. I have even seen a tv documentary on the nasty bombs you could make with only duty free items....
Let's assume you are a member of Congress. Recognizing the sheer stupidity of the liquid ban, you vote for a law that gets rid of it.
Then, some time later, there is an incident on a plane. It doesn't matter whether it's big or small, nor whether it relates to liquids. When I run against you, I'm going to run the following ad:
"Congresscritter Bakpapier voted to weaken airport security. Nine months later, "X" happened on a plane, endangering millions of American lives.
Congresscritter Mikeef will secure our borders, and our aircraft. Not only will he enhance airport security but he will also personally administer a prostate exam at the WTMD to anyone who looks 'funny.'
Congresscritter Bakpapier, he hates America. Vote for Mikeef."
Mike
Aug 29, 2016, 11:48 am
#21
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I have to disagree with you, Mike.
Our Congresscritters throw this excuse around whenever they don't want to take action on something. <deleted by moderator>
A bureaucrat is even less likely to be held more accountable. If a bureaucrat does appear to be thrown under the bus for a mistake, examine it closely. You're looking at a scapegoat and a settling of old scores, not actual accountability.
Plenty of folks are making $$ off the current system: TSOs, airlines selling over-priced drinks on board, airport vendors, trash haulers (probably charging exorbitant 'hazardous waste' disposal fees for what they know is quality confiscations), trash pickers who sort through the confiscated items for personal gain or resale, vendors who sell exorbitantly-priced 'travel' sizes, etc.
If someone could figure out a way to generate big bucks for the right people by ending the LGA ban, it would be eliminated immediately.
Keep in mind, at one time, there was a proposed ban on pax taking open beverages on the plane (remember TSOs testing airport-purchased beverages at some gates)? That got shot down in a hurry - way too many Congress folks and their staffs weren't going to be separated from their Starbuck's as they boarded.
Our Congresscritters throw this excuse around whenever they don't want to take action on something. <deleted by moderator>
A bureaucrat is even less likely to be held more accountable. If a bureaucrat does appear to be thrown under the bus for a mistake, examine it closely. You're looking at a scapegoat and a settling of old scores, not actual accountability.
Plenty of folks are making $$ off the current system: TSOs, airlines selling over-priced drinks on board, airport vendors, trash haulers (probably charging exorbitant 'hazardous waste' disposal fees for what they know is quality confiscations), trash pickers who sort through the confiscated items for personal gain or resale, vendors who sell exorbitantly-priced 'travel' sizes, etc.
If someone could figure out a way to generate big bucks for the right people by ending the LGA ban, it would be eliminated immediately.
Keep in mind, at one time, there was a proposed ban on pax taking open beverages on the plane (remember TSOs testing airport-purchased beverages at some gates)? That got shot down in a hurry - way too many Congress folks and their staffs weren't going to be separated from their Starbuck's as they boarded.
Last edited by TWA884; Aug 29, 2016 at 2:03 pm Reason: OMNI/PR
Aug 29, 2016, 1:38 pm
#22
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Boston, MA USA
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I have but one anecdote about the liquid ban:
After our Disney world honeymoon, my wife and I were in the ridiculousness that is the TSA line at MCO. In front and behind us in line were many families with children. The family in front of us had a ~ 8-10 year old boy who was drinking a full orange soda. When the TSA agent came towards us with the standard instructions (laptops out, check pockets, shoes off etc.) he nicely said to the young boy: "hey buddy, you gotta chug that before you come thru because you can't take it past the checkpoint." The kid took it as a challenge and started GUZZLING the soda... I looked at the father shaking my head in disbelief and I said to the TSA agent: 'well, THAT is CLEARLY not the kind dangerous liquid you're looking for if the kid is drinking it-so why not let him finish it at his own pace?!?' The TSA agent smiled at me and said: "Call your congressmen and senators buddy, I know it looks a bit silly but someone wrote that down in the regulations somewhere"
So the answer to the liquids (at least drinkable ones) is to have the agents ask you to take a sip! Now, how do we get that message out to the powers that be???
After our Disney world honeymoon, my wife and I were in the ridiculousness that is the TSA line at MCO. In front and behind us in line were many families with children. The family in front of us had a ~ 8-10 year old boy who was drinking a full orange soda. When the TSA agent came towards us with the standard instructions (laptops out, check pockets, shoes off etc.) he nicely said to the young boy: "hey buddy, you gotta chug that before you come thru because you can't take it past the checkpoint." The kid took it as a challenge and started GUZZLING the soda... I looked at the father shaking my head in disbelief and I said to the TSA agent: 'well, THAT is CLEARLY not the kind dangerous liquid you're looking for if the kid is drinking it-so why not let him finish it at his own pace?!?' The TSA agent smiled at me and said: "Call your congressmen and senators buddy, I know it looks a bit silly but someone wrote that down in the regulations somewhere"
So the answer to the liquids (at least drinkable ones) is to have the agents ask you to take a sip! Now, how do we get that message out to the powers that be???
Aug 29, 2016, 1:41 pm
#23
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Funny thing is-at BOS terminal C (B6) there's a Dunkin Donuts RIGHT before the security checkpoint that never has much of a line. The two dunks INSIDE the checkpoint however, are ALWAYS a madhouse! My wife's aunt always goes to the pre security dunks, gets a coffee and then has to dump it 5 min later smh.
Aug 29, 2016, 2:23 pm
#24
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Aug 29, 2016, 3:04 pm
#25
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Aug 29, 2016, 11:34 pm
#26
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The liquid ban will never go away. Not for security reasons, but for economical reasons.
- People cant bring bottles of drink and some food stuffs and other products for personal care on board, so they will buy on board (airline revenue) or buy duty free (airport revenue)
- People cant bring bottles of drink and some food stuffs and other products for personal care on board, so they will buy on board (airline revenue) or buy duty free (airport revenue)
Aug 30, 2016, 12:22 am
#27
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Somewhere in Florida
Posts: 2,621
THIS! Very sad, but very true. It clearly shows how pointless the entire TSA (and many aspects of DHS) truly are. Now we've had >5 incidents in the past two weeks of people running for their lives because someone said they heard someone else say they heard gunshots, and it was the police & TSA running the fastest.
# of terrorist attacks stopped / prevented by the TSA: 0
$ of taxpayer money, cost to airlines, and lost productivity time: too numerous to count.
When I run against you, I'm going to run the following ad:
"Congresscritter Bakpapier voted to weaken airport security. Nine months later, "X" happened on a plane, endangering millions of American lives.
Congresscritter Mikeef will secure our borders, and our aircraft. Not only will he enhance airport security but he will also personally administer a prostate exam at the WTMD to anyone who looks 'funny.'
Congresscritter Bakpapier, he hates America. Vote for Mikeef."
Mike
"Congresscritter Bakpapier voted to weaken airport security. Nine months later, "X" happened on a plane, endangering millions of American lives.
Congresscritter Mikeef will secure our borders, and our aircraft. Not only will he enhance airport security but he will also personally administer a prostate exam at the WTMD to anyone who looks 'funny.'
Congresscritter Bakpapier, he hates America. Vote for Mikeef."
Mike
Maybe it's because I've dropped off the grid a bit, but I saw my first political advert for the presidential election today...only because I was at the service department of the car dealership where they had some drivel passing itself off as daytime television blaring in the waiting area. It made me almost yearn for CNN Airport....no, not really, but what was playing was several orders of magnitude lower intellectually, which is saying a lot. I don't have respect for CNN.
Aug 30, 2016, 5:14 am
#28
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