RustyC

I haven't seen a problem with violence, either, and that's even taking into account grumpy passengers (ATL has had some of the worst problems in the country with long lines). There was that thing in Denver where some employees were fondling pax inappropriately, but in anything the size of TSA you'll get an outlier or two like that that'll be fired at the least and arrested if there's a basis to do so. Back in the days of $6-an-hour people from Argenbright and the high turnover they used to have, you think someone was worried about being fired for an inappropriate patdown? It was a dead-end job and they'd leave for anyone paying more. The TSA pays barely enough that people want to keep the job, making it something like Costco albeit less pleasant.

The anti-TSA people never give up, though. As I've posted before, I think their real bet is that eventually a majority of people will not be old enough to remember how bad (or really how negligent) things were before 9/11. So, not knowing the history, they might be doomed to repeat it.

readywhenyouare

Plenty of TSA agents touch little children inappropriately every day. They also abuse the elderly. There was a case of an elderly man with colostomy bag and the TSA agent dumped it all over him and then set him in a room by himself for hours.

readywhenyouare

Rusty, what was so bad pre 9/11? Everything that was brought on those planes was legal at the time. There was no failure of airport security. Stop making stuff up.

halls120

Except, of course, that the negligence that helped 9/11 happen had nothing to do with gate security in place at that time.

Nice try, Rusty. Don't you ever get tired of repeating these lies?

He can't help it. I really think he's auditioning for a spot in the Hillary White House.

vasantn

I'm no fan of the TSA but they have definitely improved over the years. And I have never seen them touching little children at all, appropriately on inappropriately. I am speaking from the experience of hundreds of flights with kids under 10. The kid walks through the metal detector and that's the end of it.

halls120

The only improvement TSA has rolled out since its creation is PreCheck, which is nothing more than giving some us the perfectly adequate gate security that was in place before we put 50000 more overpaid, over-entitled people on the federal payroll.

readywhenyouare

Well here you go

halls120

Yep, if were TSA, I would be worried about that six year old girl.

RustyC

I don't recall ever saying it wasn't legal at the time. That's not the point. The point is that you had a dysfunctional system where an important function like that was being contracted out to the lowest bidder, which is how you got the $6/hour employees. Even though their jobs were much simpler and they "did" a lot less in terms of security, you still had massive turnover like you'd get with any job paying that low. With turnover the training goes out the window, as companies won't do much training for people who won't be working for them long.

As a nation we decided quickly after 9/11 that the system just wouldn't do and was a joke that suddenly had stopped being funny. And as I've posted tons of times, whether or not something would have prevented the particular attack at hand is NOT the standard, nor has it been throughout our history. Whenever you'd had truly jarring events - 9/11, Pearl Harbor, Titanic sinking, etc. - they have led to re-examination and changes to entire systems that go well beyond what was needed for the particular case (To believe otherwise is to not know the history or to be politically tone deaf).

We decided after 9/11 that airport security had to be taken much more seriously and would not be a minimum-wage job going to the lowest bidder because you can't hire and keep the people you need under a system like that. To professionalize any job you need continuity of people. Before 9/11 the cost came first and the function a pretty distant second. Many people already knew that, but it took the traumatic event to provide the impetus to get serious and change the system.

readywhenyouare

With a 95% failure rate I dare anyone to make an argument that TSA is performing any better than private security.

halls120

And NONE of the facts you cite above had ANYTHING to do with the 9/11 attacks.

We didn't decide after 9/11 that airport security "had to be taken much more seriously and would not be a minimum-wage job going to the lowest bidder because you can't hire and keep the people you need under a system like that."

We set up the Kabuki Theater that is TSA because the government had to show the nation they were doing something to prevent another attack. When those of us at the pre-TSA planning meetings reminded the morons behind the creation of TSA that the gate security in place wasn't the flaw exploited by the terrorists, we were politely told that the facts didn't matter, that if Administration didn't write a TSA bill, Congress would do it regardless.

Tchiowa

Exactly.

MatthewLAX

I know you are an absolutely true believer in your cause and I also think you have a good/genuine left wing heart, so take the following with that preface.

You earn a here.

halls120 helps to explain why--

Lies Rusty. Lies. Why do you keep repeating this? Why do you bury your head in the sand when a simple google search reveals that the TSA is much worse than a few bad apples?

And? The TSA has prevented no terrorist attacks and proven to be a bloated and ineffective gov't agency.

What is your point? You're making a non-sequitur-puesdo-fat-blue-collar-Ed-guy-you-idolized-on-MSNBC sort of argument.

No one is arguing that the screening system before 9/11 was good/adequate. No one is arguing that that the TSA should be dismantled.

But what we are saying is that the TSA organization is rotten and in desperate need of serious reform. Right now we play security theatre in the USA and not a week goes by without some story of theft, abuse, or other mischief. We are not any safer because of nude-o-scopes or liquid bans. Honestly, you must be the one who is incredibly tone deaf.

The solution, in my mind, is not privatization. That ship has sailed. But a solution is needed -- that you accept the mediocrity of the TSA is a prime example of why my switch to your side of the aisle will likely never be fully complete. You excuse rancid behavior by throwing up a strawman -- that it was even worse before. Stop making that argument. I'm so sick of hearing it.

ATOBTTR

And when you consider that TSA has failed 95% of the time during red-team testing, how can anyone think that what we had before was any worse than what we have now, especially when it's been pointed out over and over and over that it's lies that 9/11 was an airport security failure.
TSA Chief Out After Agents Fail 95 Percent of Airport Breach Tests

Alex71

My experience on recent trips to the U.S. was the the TSA has gotten a lot less unfriendly over the years, to the point that I would almost describe it as a neutral experience.