Why does TSA consider GE holders to be higher risk when traveling on non-US carriers?
May 17, 2016, 10:32 pm
#1
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Why does TSA consider GE holders to be higher risk when traveling on non-US carriers?
Why does the TSA consider GE holders to be higher risk when traveling on non-US carriers?
I know of a number of GE holders who are U.S. military active or retired. They have valid Known Traveler Numbers, paid for and are approved for GE, and yet they never receive PreCheck because they travel on the U.S. military's own aircraft or on other "non-participating" carriers.
The recent bottlenecks at many airports would lead sensible minds to reconsider the portion of "The Algorithm" that says "Don't trust Grog (a GE-card-carrier) when he's about to fly on a 'non-participating' carrier".
I've been told that it probably has to do with software signatures on boarding passes. If that's the case, is this really the best the U.S. can for its own citizens who stepped up and paid for background checks and GE (nevermind having also spent a lifetime serving their nation)?
I say "Drop the silly airline-dependency requirement for Pre-Check". It's not a security measure; it's just a way to continually irritating frequent-traveling, GE-cleared, nation-serving taxpayers.
While touted as part of a wonderful randomized security system, the denial of Pre-Check 100% of the time to those who've paid for background checks as well as served their country is just plain wrong. It simply shows how poorly designed the PreCheck system is.
I know of a number of GE holders who are U.S. military active or retired. They have valid Known Traveler Numbers, paid for and are approved for GE, and yet they never receive PreCheck because they travel on the U.S. military's own aircraft or on other "non-participating" carriers.
The recent bottlenecks at many airports would lead sensible minds to reconsider the portion of "The Algorithm" that says "Don't trust Grog (a GE-card-carrier) when he's about to fly on a 'non-participating' carrier".
I've been told that it probably has to do with software signatures on boarding passes. If that's the case, is this really the best the U.S. can for its own citizens who stepped up and paid for background checks and GE (nevermind having also spent a lifetime serving their nation)?
I say "Drop the silly airline-dependency requirement for Pre-Check". It's not a security measure; it's just a way to continually irritating frequent-traveling, GE-cleared, nation-serving taxpayers.
While touted as part of a wonderful randomized security system, the denial of Pre-Check 100% of the time to those who've paid for background checks as well as served their country is just plain wrong. It simply shows how poorly designed the PreCheck system is.
May 18, 2016, 5:10 am
#2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Why does the TSA consider GE holders to be higher risk when traveling on non-US carriers?
I know of a number of GE holders who are U.S. military active or retired. They have valid Known Traveler Numbers, paid for and are approved for GE, and yet they never receive PreCheck because they travel on the U.S. military's own aircraft or on other "non-participating" carriers.
The recent bottlenecks at many airports would lead sensible minds to reconsider the portion of "The Algorithm" that says "Don't trust Grog (a GE-card-carrier) when he's about to fly on a 'non-participating' carrier".
I've been told that it probably has to do with software signatures on boarding passes. If that's the case, is this really the best the U.S. can for its own citizens who stepped up and paid for background checks and GE (nevermind having also spent a lifetime serving their nation)?
I say "Drop the silly airline-dependency requirement for Pre-Check". It's not a security measure; it's just a way to continually irritating frequent-traveling, GE-cleared, nation-serving taxpayers.
While touted as part of a wonderful randomized security system, the denial of Pre-Check 100% of the time to those who've paid for background checks as well as served their country is just plain wrong. It simply shows how poorly designed the PreCheck system is.
I know of a number of GE holders who are U.S. military active or retired. They have valid Known Traveler Numbers, paid for and are approved for GE, and yet they never receive PreCheck because they travel on the U.S. military's own aircraft or on other "non-participating" carriers.
The recent bottlenecks at many airports would lead sensible minds to reconsider the portion of "The Algorithm" that says "Don't trust Grog (a GE-card-carrier) when he's about to fly on a 'non-participating' carrier".
I've been told that it probably has to do with software signatures on boarding passes. If that's the case, is this really the best the U.S. can for its own citizens who stepped up and paid for background checks and GE (nevermind having also spent a lifetime serving their nation)?
I say "Drop the silly airline-dependency requirement for Pre-Check". It's not a security measure; it's just a way to continually irritating frequent-traveling, GE-cleared, nation-serving taxpayers.
While touted as part of a wonderful randomized security system, the denial of Pre-Check 100% of the time to those who've paid for background checks as well as served their country is just plain wrong. It simply shows how poorly designed the PreCheck system is.
Even if one holds only Pre, this airline-dependent requirement needs to go away. But I suspect TSA has established such in order to have another entity to blame when pax get irate that Pre isn't on their boarding pass today.
May 18, 2016, 9:17 am
#3
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The Pre program has never made sense (unlike GE/NEXUS).
GE vets a traveler and, absent unusual circumstances, that traveler is trusted for all future travel, other than the possibility of a rare secondary. The majority of GE travelers I know have never gotten a 'random' secondary. Even if the kiosks break down, a GE traveler has front-of-line privileges.
Pre vets a traveler for $85. The experience is not guaranteed; there are no front-of-line privileges.
Meanwhile, a completely unvetted traveler may receive Pre based solely on information TSA gets from an approved airline. No cost to the traveler.
Here's the important point. TSA's actions prove that the Pre background check counts for exactly zero. Any pax traveling with an approved airline is potentially just as qualified to receive Pre as the individual who paid the $$ and submitted to a background check. Both pax, like all pax, will receive the same careful scrutiny at the checkpoint, so both pax will be threat-free when they clear the checkpoint.
Since that's the case, why should anyone flying approved airlines ever have to pay for Pre? The background check (any background check) is meaningless at the checkpoint, as any civilian contractor with a high security clearance or any retired veteran can tell you. The truth is, even with paid Pre, you are 're-vetted' based on whether or not TSA receives data from an 'approved' airline, and the background check counted for exactly nothing (except for the $$ TSA got).
GE vets a traveler and, absent unusual circumstances, that traveler is trusted for all future travel, other than the possibility of a rare secondary. The majority of GE travelers I know have never gotten a 'random' secondary. Even if the kiosks break down, a GE traveler has front-of-line privileges.
Pre vets a traveler for $85. The experience is not guaranteed; there are no front-of-line privileges.
Meanwhile, a completely unvetted traveler may receive Pre based solely on information TSA gets from an approved airline. No cost to the traveler.
Here's the important point. TSA's actions prove that the Pre background check counts for exactly zero. Any pax traveling with an approved airline is potentially just as qualified to receive Pre as the individual who paid the $$ and submitted to a background check. Both pax, like all pax, will receive the same careful scrutiny at the checkpoint, so both pax will be threat-free when they clear the checkpoint.
Since that's the case, why should anyone flying approved airlines ever have to pay for Pre? The background check (any background check) is meaningless at the checkpoint, as any civilian contractor with a high security clearance or any retired veteran can tell you. The truth is, even with paid Pre, you are 're-vetted' based on whether or not TSA receives data from an 'approved' airline, and the background check counted for exactly nothing (except for the $$ TSA got).
May 18, 2016, 12:00 pm
#4
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More frustrating is transferring from non-US carrier to US carrier on the same ticket. Despite having my TT number in the record and helpful agents working on the record at the domestic side to make sure it's there and reprint the BP, I've never had success with getting precheck to appear on that final segment on the US carrier. Conversely, if I buy two separate tickets, no problem, but often that's at a significant cost difference.
May 18, 2016, 6:19 pm
#6
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I know a lot of European carriers are concerned about data protection as well.
May 18, 2016, 6:32 pm
#7
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May 18, 2016, 6:42 pm
#8
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What they need to do is add the ability that if you are a trusted traveler to use your physical card and boarding pass together go to a kiosk swipe your card and scan your foreign carriers boarding pass. Then the system can match your information and let you proceed to a precheck lane or print a receipt for a precheck lane.
It is so anoying to not have a way to do precheck for international carriers.
I have been denied precheck only once since being a GE member many years ago and that was this year when someone bought my ticket and put the wrong birthdate on the reservation. At checkin the agent looked at me and my boarding pass and was stumped I didn't have precheck. She looked in the reservation and saw I did have a trusted traveler number and then asked don't you normally have precheck. I said yes and we figured out it was my birthdate that was wrong. She fixed it and pooff precheck.
It is so anoying to not have a way to do precheck for international carriers.
I have been denied precheck only once since being a GE member many years ago and that was this year when someone bought my ticket and put the wrong birthdate on the reservation. At checkin the agent looked at me and my boarding pass and was stumped I didn't have precheck. She looked in the reservation and saw I did have a trusted traveler number and then asked don't you normally have precheck. I said yes and we figured out it was my birthdate that was wrong. She fixed it and pooff precheck.
May 18, 2016, 7:23 pm
#9
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What they need to do is add the ability that if you are a trusted traveler to use your physical card and boarding pass together go to a kiosk swipe your card and scan your foreign carriers boarding pass. Then the system can match your information and let you proceed to a precheck lane or print a receipt for a precheck lane.
May 18, 2016, 7:42 pm
#10
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It's not just the risk data relating to the individual from as long as 5 years ago, but the information submitted by the carrier.
Both AC & WS participate in Pre-Check and it makes sense for other non-US carriers with a large US presence to do so as well. That is especially true of BA and VS because UK nationals are now GE-eligible.
Most people don't seem to have any problem obtaining Pre when connecting to a US carrier for a domestic flight, by entering their KTN in the PNR for the domestic carrier and then obtaining a new BP.
The real complaint here ought to be to the carrier for not participating in Pre-Check. Data protection concerns or not, that's a decision for the carrier and people make their ticketing choices accordingly.
Both AC & WS participate in Pre-Check and it makes sense for other non-US carriers with a large US presence to do so as well. That is especially true of BA and VS because UK nationals are now GE-eligible.
Most people don't seem to have any problem obtaining Pre when connecting to a US carrier for a domestic flight, by entering their KTN in the PNR for the domestic carrier and then obtaining a new BP.
The real complaint here ought to be to the carrier for not participating in Pre-Check. Data protection concerns or not, that's a decision for the carrier and people make their ticketing choices accordingly.
May 18, 2016, 8:01 pm
#11
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i was turned down for GE because of a 25+ year old conviction for a non-violent, non-drug related, non-customs related 4th degree, state law misdemeanor. however i was issued a KTN by TSA after the full background check.
go figure....
go figure....
May 19, 2016, 8:30 am
#12
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May 19, 2016, 8:33 am
#13
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It's probably worth as a small correction noting that Air Canada and I believe now Westjet have pre-check enabled on their system, and I receive it almost all of the time with Nexus. So it's not non-US per se, but perhaps ex-US/Can who haven't yet negotiated it with the TSA . . . not sure if this is on the TSA or the carriers for not driving a solution forward.
May 19, 2016, 8:46 am
#14
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More frustrating is transferring from non-US carrier to US carrier on the same ticket. Despite having my TT number in the record and helpful agents working on the record at the domestic side to make sure it's there and reprint the BP, I've never had success with getting precheck to appear on that final segment on the US carrier. Conversely, if I buy two separate tickets, no problem, but often that's at a significant cost difference.
When I arrive back in the USA after originating overseas on foreign carrier, I just use a United kiosk to reprint my boarding pass. 100% success in having it be Pre-check labeled.
May 19, 2016, 9:01 am
#15
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I wish I knew the trick. :-) I'll try kiosks in the future, although I'm trying to avoid it at ticketing where I can. I've seen others report the same problem I have had when traveling LH >UA on the same ticket. Mine has typically been BA>AA and EK>AA.