VWP enhancements
Jan 31, 2016, 2:58 pm
#61
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This is a high profile case so it's fun to show that. Considering the outcry from certain quarters I'm sure he wasn't a Kenyan citizen at the time he started his US political career.
Jan 31, 2016, 3:12 pm
#62
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Absolutely and my point was only that some people may be citizens of countries they never chose or even had an idea they were citizens of.
This is a high profile case so it's fun to show that. Considering the outcry from certain quarters I'm sure he wasn't a Kenyan citizen at the time he started his US political career.
This is a high profile case so it's fun to show that. Considering the outcry from certain quarters I'm sure he wasn't a Kenyan citizen at the time he started his US political career.
Iran is a lot like the US in some ways, including that of not making it so easy and cheap to give up dual-citizenship status.
Jan 31, 2016, 11:34 pm
#63
Join Date: Mar 2015
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At least, Iran does not track assets or income for Iranian nationals who do not even work or live in Iran (looking at you, USA).
Still, this is pretty sad. Despite me not having heritage of any of the listed country, I feel sorry for those international travelers being denied ESTA just because of dual nationality or merely visiting over there.
Still, this is pretty sad. Despite me not having heritage of any of the listed country, I feel sorry for those international travelers being denied ESTA just because of dual nationality or merely visiting over there.
Feb 1, 2016, 12:11 am
#64
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I think it's quite ridiculous to treat citizens of a particular country differently depending on what other citizenships they hold. A UK citizen is a UK citizen. What other citizenships he/she has, if any, is irrelevant.
From what I know, someone who is a natural born citizen of the US and also holds another citizenship is still eligible to be POTUS. If foreign citizenship doesn't interfere with ability to be president, why should it interfere with your ESTA?
At the very least, the government could have given ESTA holders some notice that they would need to apply for visas, rather than abruptly telling them when some people already had travel plans.
Funny how the targeted countries are countries whose governments we don't get along with (Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Syria) but there is no restriction on countries where terrorists are known to come from (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Afghanistan).
From what I know, someone who is a natural born citizen of the US and also holds another citizenship is still eligible to be POTUS. If foreign citizenship doesn't interfere with ability to be president, why should it interfere with your ESTA?
At the very least, the government could have given ESTA holders some notice that they would need to apply for visas, rather than abruptly telling them when some people already had travel plans.
Funny how the targeted countries are countries whose governments we don't get along with (Iran, Iraq, Sudan, and Syria) but there is no restriction on countries where terrorists are known to come from (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Afghanistan).
Feb 1, 2016, 4:11 am
#65
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There is indeed no constitutional requirement that a natural-born US dual-citizen of the US must surrender non-US citizenship to be eligible to be elected as (or otherwise become) POTUS.
When it comes to looking for "foreign" terrorists who are a threat to US civilians, the US would indeed be chasing up the wrong trees by aiming at Iran instead of aiming at say Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Morocco and a litany of other "US allies" in SW/C/S Asia region and North Africa.
Indeed. And surrendering Iranian citizenship is not even legally possible for Iranian dual-citizens under the age of 25 years. And even then, if they are a male Iranian dual-citizen, they are generally not allowed to lose their Iranian citizenship unless they have completed Iranian military service or received a service waiver and hopped through a lot of other steps that need to get approval from the senior most levels of the Iranian government. What does the US want to do, encourage VWP countries' Iranian dual-citizens to join up with the Iranian military services as a condition of being able to visit the US without a visa? Even that isn't an option.
It's increasingly obvious that the US Government wants to make it seem like its doing something for public consumption purposes without considering the negative byproducts and collateral damage of being trigger happy. These changes to the US VWP are but another example of the drivers in the Legislative and Executive branches being more of the "shoot first, ask questions (if any at all) later" variety.
A substantial numbers of Europeans of some Iranian ethnic backgrounds had no clue that they were even Iranian citizens. And yet now they are being treated by the US as if they are Iranian citizens despite only ever had European passports and citizenship as far as they knew.
When it comes to looking for "foreign" terrorists who are a threat to US civilians, the US would indeed be chasing up the wrong trees by aiming at Iran instead of aiming at say Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Morocco and a litany of other "US allies" in SW/C/S Asia region and North Africa.
At least, Iran does not track assets or income for Iranian nationals who do not even work or live in Iran (looking at you, USA).
Still, this is pretty sad. Despite me not having heritage of any of the listed country, I feel sorry for those international travelers being denied ESTA just because of dual nationality or merely visiting over there.
Still, this is pretty sad. Despite me not having heritage of any of the listed country, I feel sorry for those international travelers being denied ESTA just because of dual nationality or merely visiting over there.
It's increasingly obvious that the US Government wants to make it seem like its doing something for public consumption purposes without considering the negative byproducts and collateral damage of being trigger happy. These changes to the US VWP are but another example of the drivers in the Legislative and Executive branches being more of the "shoot first, ask questions (if any at all) later" variety.
A substantial numbers of Europeans of some Iranian ethnic backgrounds had no clue that they were even Iranian citizens. And yet now they are being treated by the US as if they are Iranian citizens despite only ever had European passports and citizenship as far as they knew.
Last edited by GUWonder; Feb 1, 2016 at 4:26 am
Feb 1, 2016, 3:30 pm
#66
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Absolutely and my point was only that some people may be citizens of countries they never chose or even had an idea they were citizens of.
This is a high profile case so it's fun to show that. Considering the outcry from certain quarters I'm sure he wasn't a Kenyan citizen at the time he started his US political career.
This is a high profile case so it's fun to show that. Considering the outcry from certain quarters I'm sure he wasn't a Kenyan citizen at the time he started his US political career.
Feb 2, 2016, 4:43 am
#67
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Feb 2, 2016, 6:23 am
#68
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This may be interesting but there is talk of Iranian-Americans losing or failing to gain security clearances for governmental and governmental contractor jobs due to some of them not disclosing what they didn't know: that they may be dual-citizens of the US and Iran without even ever recalling having an Iranian passport or any visits to Iran. This information about Iranian dual-citizenship wasn't all that well known to those involved in security clearances until the VWP "enhancement" news got around about it being applicable even to children who've never been to Iran and never have had an Iranian ID/passport.
Originally Posted by Blogndog
That's my biggest beef with the border patrol checkpoints in the USA -- they ask "of what country are you a citizen?" That's not for me to know -- a country claims me as a citizen, I don't get to choose who considers me one, and I have no obligation to know which countries assert such a claim. They would need to direct that question to the nationality experts in each country.
I currently have an ESTA and answered 'no' to the dual citizenship question, as I was unaware I had or may have had a second citizenship, which is an issue I have only started looking into this as a result of these changes. As an aside, it strikes me that thousands of people must have innocently have answered this question incorrectly one way or another (e.g. people unaware they are citizens of somewhere by descent e.g. Ireland).
What would you do in my position? I don't particularly want to go and get a visa but it wouldn't be the end of the world - but what I'm more worried about is it may then be claimed I made misrepresentations on my original ESTA (and I'm not sure how I would prove otherwise).
Feb 8, 2016, 7:06 am
#70
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The US wants to deny many more such people admission to the US. When it comes to those VWP country citizens with no dual-citizenship, a history of lots of travel, and no history of being out of legal compliance, many are getting denied US visas after applying for US visas just because of the US VWP "enhancements" -- and this is hitting more so those adults well under 45 years of age than those older than that. And then they just come up with a more traditional excuse to deny the visas. 
Feb 8, 2016, 7:45 am
#71
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Feb 8, 2016, 9:18 am
#72
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The paying for the fee -- and even the filled in application material -- isn't the worse of it for the visa applicant who could have previously used the VWP; rather the worse of it is the time and hassle of actually dealing with the US embassy/consulate and having to take the time off to show up during business hours for a period of time that is so greatly variable and a waste of time.
Feb 8, 2016, 12:56 pm
#73
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The paying for the fee -- and even the filled in application material -- isn't the worse of it for the visa applicant who could have previously used the VWP; rather the worse of it is the time and hassle of actually dealing with the US embassy/consulate and having to take the time off to show up during business hours for a period of time that is so greatly variable and a waste of time.
Feb 8, 2016, 2:26 pm
#74
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Feb 8, 2016, 4:30 pm
#75
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The paying for the fee -- and even the filled in application material -- isn't the worse of it for the visa applicant who could have previously used the VWP; rather the worse of it is the time and hassle of actually dealing with the US embassy/consulate and having to take the time off to show up during business hours for a period of time that is so greatly variable and a waste of time.