VWP enhancements
Jan 22, 2016, 8:24 pm
#46
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https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...y-requirements
You do not qualify for entry to the USA under the VWP, and will need to apply for a visa from the nearest US Embassy or Consulate, if:
you have travelled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan or Syria since March 2011
you have travelled to Iran, Iraq, Sudan or Syria since March 2011
Jan 23, 2016, 9:00 am
#47
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I should like to think so too, but the UK government advice on this is very clear (even if the Americans seem to have no idea themselves):
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...y-requirements
They don't say it's effective from some date, or that previously issued ESTA for such travellers is still valid. They just say "don't qualify".
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...y-requirements
They don't say it's effective from some date, or that previously issued ESTA for such travellers is still valid. They just say "don't qualify".
Changes to on-line information on the ESTA website about the new rules are not expected to be made until the end of February 2016.
w helpful.
Jan 25, 2016, 9:35 am
#48
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Actual case:
1. British Citizen
2. Holds valid & approved ESTA
3. Has travelled to US on said ESTA before
4. Has also travelled to one of the "forbidden countries" since March 2011
5. ESTA still shows valid as US won't know they have been there, and no automatic reason to invalidate ESTA as there is no link to that country except having travelled there since March 2011
6. As of this time, ESTA website still shows approval as valid, so airline would show passenger as OK to board
7. Passport has entry/exit stamp from forbidden country
8. Pax does not have US visa
What is the most likely scenario if this person travelled today?
1. Airline refuses check in?
2. Airline shows as OK to board, pax travels, denied entry to US & deported back?
3. Airline shows as OK to board, pax travels, allowed entry
Obviously 1 & 2 are bad, with 2 being significantly worse as that kind of thing basically blacklists you forever.
Main difficulty is that no official channels have any information about this at all, so it's all guesswork. Or better to just suck it up and get a visa and delay travel till after visa is obtained?
1. British Citizen
2. Holds valid & approved ESTA
3. Has travelled to US on said ESTA before
4. Has also travelled to one of the "forbidden countries" since March 2011
5. ESTA still shows valid as US won't know they have been there, and no automatic reason to invalidate ESTA as there is no link to that country except having travelled there since March 2011
6. As of this time, ESTA website still shows approval as valid, so airline would show passenger as OK to board
7. Passport has entry/exit stamp from forbidden country
8. Pax does not have US visa
What is the most likely scenario if this person travelled today?
1. Airline refuses check in?
2. Airline shows as OK to board, pax travels, denied entry to US & deported back?
3. Airline shows as OK to board, pax travels, allowed entry
Obviously 1 & 2 are bad, with 2 being significantly worse as that kind of thing basically blacklists you forever.
Main difficulty is that no official channels have any information about this at all, so it's all guesswork. Or better to just suck it up and get a visa and delay travel till after visa is obtained?
Jan 25, 2016, 11:43 am
#49
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they should just require EVERYONE to get the Visa before travel, since they don't trust anyone at all. That should solve the problem. Waiting for Canadians to be put on this requirement now, probably coming soon?
If British-Iranians can be asked for visa, how about Canadian-Iranians and people like that who're dual nationals?
If British-Iranians can be asked for visa, how about Canadian-Iranians and people like that who're dual nationals?
Jan 25, 2016, 2:49 pm
#50
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Some people with previously issued ESTAs for one passport and used Iranian visas in another passport have managed to enter the US under the US VWP within the past few days. This is not to say it will work for all or most, but some managed to use it anyway rather than risk having to buy a new ticket.
Jan 26, 2016, 3:34 am
#51
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Some people with previously issued ESTAs for one passport and used Iranian visas in another passport have managed to enter the US under the US VWP within the past few days. This is not to say it will work for all or most, but some managed to use it anyway rather than risk having to buy a new ticket.
Jan 26, 2016, 3:34 am
#52
Join Date: Mar 2015
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The argument seems to be that because of IS the restrictions are needed. Now I would have thought the last country on this Earth to be linked to IS is Iran. I's more likely that American citizens will join IS or commit acts of terror in their name. Perhaps US-Iranians should be on no-fly lists
ISIS is a Sunni military sect which kills infidels and Muslims who do not practice the Sunni way.
Iran is dominately a Shia Muslim country, hardly any Iranians are joining ISIS for that reason. Plus, it is relatively "stable" for its region, even though it is a ...... theocracy.
Jan 26, 2016, 4:06 am
#53
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Daesh/ISIS/ISIL also kills large numbers of Sunni Muslims, but they reject Shias from membership while they accept some segments of Sunni Muslims as members and pretend to be some standard bearer for Sunnis. But the chances of any given Iranian dual-citizen with a US VWP country's passport being a Sunni is well under 1/20. And lots of the Iranian dual-citizens of VWP countries are Jewish Persians who are settled in Europe, say as with the Jewish Persian community in the UK. Some may say they should give up the Iranian citizenship, but then you have to see how that goes/doesn't go. 
If I were to be paranoid about Daesh terrorists using VWP country passports coming to the US, I would be more concerned about those from GCC countries or those countries -- including Maghreb/North African ones -- with pro-GCC governments/populations. That said, smearing large volumes of VWP countries' citizens for travel/ties to places where most of them went while having no desire for being party to a violent conflict makes no sense. And the irony is that those VWP countries' citizens who backed and participated in the invasion of Saddam's Iraq and the government-sponsored attacks on Syria's Assad are going to get a free pass from these enhancements as long as they are not dual-nationals/visitors (not always by choice) of the US-punished countries.
For all the money we've invested in a global surveillance/security state, our national return on investment is so poor that the officials decide to smear large volumes of foreign citizen because our surveillance/security state expenditures are not delivering security? How ironic.
If the airline contractors or CBP see the stamp or otherwise have direct or indirect access about travel records involving Iraq during the relevant period for these "enhancements", then expect problems.
If I were to be paranoid about Daesh terrorists using VWP country passports coming to the US, I would be more concerned about those from GCC countries or those countries -- including Maghreb/North African ones -- with pro-GCC governments/populations. That said, smearing large volumes of VWP countries' citizens for travel/ties to places where most of them went while having no desire for being party to a violent conflict makes no sense. And the irony is that those VWP countries' citizens who backed and participated in the invasion of Saddam's Iraq and the government-sponsored attacks on Syria's Assad are going to get a free pass from these enhancements as long as they are not dual-nationals/visitors (not always by choice) of the US-punished countries.
For all the money we've invested in a global surveillance/security state, our national return on investment is so poor that the officials decide to smear large volumes of foreign citizen because our surveillance/security state expenditures are not delivering security? How ironic.
If the airline contractors or CBP see the stamp or otherwise have direct or indirect access about travel records involving Iraq during the relevant period for these "enhancements", then expect problems.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jan 26, 2016 at 4:14 am
Jan 26, 2016, 8:10 pm
#54
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...as long as they are not dual-nationals/visitors (not always by choice)...
Jan 29, 2016, 7:51 am
#55
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A Swedish family of Iranian heritage got hit by something approaching a $4,000 charge this month due to the VWP enhancements preventing their return back to Sweden via US (as transit point) while vacationing elsewhere in the Americas on tickets bought before this law was implemented.
The Swedish family in question were the product of relatives who fled Iran due to being opposed to theocratic rule and the lack of liberal democratic practices there. This dynamic has been hitting a lot of Europeans of Iranian heritage, mostly those who are the progeny of those who fled Iran as that country became less secular. Rather ironic.
Yes, so they too would be required to get a visa.
The Swedish family in question were the product of relatives who fled Iran due to being opposed to theocratic rule and the lack of liberal democratic practices there. This dynamic has been hitting a lot of Europeans of Iranian heritage, mostly those who are the progeny of those who fled Iran as that country became less secular. Rather ironic.
Yes, so they too would be required to get a visa.
Jan 30, 2016, 6:54 am
#56
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I've started applying for a visa despite still having a valid ESTA. Holy .... the dumb questions they ask and the $160 fee. Starting to feel even more sorry for citizens of the 160+ countries that can't enter the US without a visa. And really hoping this visa will be a 10 year one, or I will seriously cut back travel to the US.
Jan 30, 2016, 2:47 pm
#57
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In case anyone is interested, CBP has finally posted a not tremendously helpful but better than nothing FAQ:
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/internati...ention-act-faq
They have not directly addressed the questions about what would happen if someone with a history of travel to Iran and a valid ESTA shows up, nor have they addressed the plight of those with "forced" Iranian citizenship, but suggest that such individuals "should" head to their nearest embassy.
I found it interesting that they say that they are working on identifying who has been to the affected countries in the absence of dual nationality. That might produce some interesting data points on what is and is not being sucked into the US intelligence apparatus...
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/internati...ention-act-faq
They have not directly addressed the questions about what would happen if someone with a history of travel to Iran and a valid ESTA shows up, nor have they addressed the plight of those with "forced" Iranian citizenship, but suggest that such individuals "should" head to their nearest embassy.
I found it interesting that they say that they are working on identifying who has been to the affected countries in the absence of dual nationality. That might produce some interesting data points on what is and is not being sucked into the US intelligence apparatus...
Jan 31, 2016, 2:01 pm
#58
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This may be interesting but there is talk of Iranian-Americans losing or failing to gain security clearances for governmental and governmental contractor jobs due to some of them not disclosing what they didn't know: that they may be dual-citizens of the US and Iran without even ever recalling having an Iranian passport or any visits to Iran. This information about Iranian dual-citizenship wasn't all that well known to those involved in security clearances until the VWP "enhancement" news got around about it being applicable even to children who've never been to Iran and never have had an Iranian ID/passport.
Jan 31, 2016, 2:21 pm
#59
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Can't help quoting this:
http://www.kenyamission-un.ch/?Consu...or_citizenship
CITIZENSHIP BY BIRTH
A person is a citizen by birth if at the date of his or her birth; one of the parents is or was a citizen of Kenya. This is regardless of where the person is or was born.
Section 30 of part 6 of the constitution provides how persons born before 12th December, 1963 became citizens by birth.
A person is a citizen by birth if at the date of his or her birth; one of the parents is or was a citizen of Kenya. This is regardless of where the person is or was born.
Section 30 of part 6 of the constitution provides how persons born before 12th December, 1963 became citizens by birth.
Jan 31, 2016, 2:38 pm
#60
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Yes. Ok. But Obama was born before Kenyan independence and isn't a Kenyan citizen at this point. He lost it in his 20s without even having to take any action to lose it. Technically, Obama may have been a British subject and a US citizen for at least some years, but that would be for fewer years than he was a US and Kenyan citizen.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jan 31, 2016 at 2:58 pm
