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Pax harassed and screened AFTER flight - video

Pax harassed and screened AFTER flight - video

Old Nov 25, 2015, 6:36 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by chollie
He wouldn't fit in at TSA.

He was polite, courteous, didn't raise his voice or insult anyone, kept his hands to himself and didn't steal anything.

He was even willing to voluntarily give his ID to the main TSO because, as he told that guy, the TSO was courteous and professional - clearly his TSO training didn't take!

I had to laugh when the pax told them he had lost the BP. An experienced TSO, like a frequent traveler, has seen wayward BPs floating around before. I've misplaced mine during flight before. If he had a password-protected cellphone, could they summon LE and force him to give up his password and display his online BP?
They could go to the airline and ask them to print out another copy.
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 6:38 pm
  #47  
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Originally Posted by chollie
You probably missed it when a TSA team went to a railway station (not a huge one). All arriving pax were diverted from going directly to their cars. They were forced to enter the station ('sterile area') and undergo a full bag and body check before being allowed to proceed. Please note: these were pax who had arrived at their final destination and they did not have to go through the sterile area to reach ground transportation. They were forced to go that way.
I remember that story, though in the version I saw people weren't exactly forced to be searched (much as in the video here).
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 6:43 pm
  #48  
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Originally Posted by chollie
Do you recall when Sen. Rand Paul was held by TSA? IIRC, he was at an airport with one of those glass enclosures and he was 'held' there. He was clearly detained, he was not free to go. The only way to challenge them was to try to walk away. If you do that, you risk them surrounding you and trying to provoke physical contact - any physical contact will do, because then you have 'assaulted' a TSO and LE will detain you and TSA will throw the book at you.
If he was traveling from or to a session of Congress, that should have led to some interesting Constitutional issues (see Article 1, Section 6).
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 8:40 pm
  #49  
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Originally Posted by DaveBlaine
Why don't the powers that be just eliminate the middle-man? Empower the TSOs with the tools and authority they need without having to rely on their "brothers in blue" who may not be willing or motivated to help them. It should be "One Team, One Fight" as they BOTH stand on the front lines against terrorism. Apparently some aren't seeing it that way.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/...tsa-personnel/

All this could be done at the very top with a stroke of the pen in an Executive Order.
Obviously, the powers that be have too little respect for the Security Theater Authority to grant them any more powers. Anybody who has dealt with them understands why.
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 8:47 pm
  #50  
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Originally Posted by sethb
They could go to the airline and ask them to print out another copy.
Is it that simple - to print out a BP for a flight that has already departed? A BP that has already registered as 'boarded'?

Might be a small IT difficulty involved there, I don't know.
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 8:50 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by sethb
I remember that story, though in the version I saw people weren't exactly forced to be searched (much as in the video here).
http://news.travel.aol.com/2011/02/2...ing-off-train/

Better refresh your memory: the train pax and their bags were searched.
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 8:52 pm
  #52  
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Originally Posted by sethb
If he was traveling from or to a session of Congress, that should have led to some interesting Constitutional issues (see Article 1, Section 6).
He was traveling to Congress for a vote that he ended up missing because of the TSA delays.

It's OK to disregard the Constitution if you're the government and you are doing it in the interests of national security.

Paul wasn't concerned about what happened to ordinary American citizens. He was ticked that they tried to treat HIM like one of the 'little people'.

Last edited by chollie; Nov 25, 2015 at 9:04 pm
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Old Nov 25, 2015, 11:14 pm
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Originally Posted by chollie
He was traveling to Congress for a vote that he ended up missing because of the TSA delays.

It's OK to disregard the Constitution if you're the government and you are doing it in the interests of national security.

Paul wasn't concerned about what happened to ordinary American citizens. He was ticked that they tried to treat HIM like one of the 'little people'.
Serves him right. He could have used the Constitution to scare them into not doing it to anybody.
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Old Nov 26, 2015, 1:21 am
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Originally Posted by DaveBlaine
I think we're coming at it from two different approaches. Let me try a metaphor. Remember when you were a kid and left home alone and your mom told you not to use the stove? Well, what if you were empowered to use that stove instead of waiting for an adult to get home?

Same thing with the TSO's. Instead of waiting for them to get a police officer (in the metaphor "an adult") we empower them to do what needs to be done. And then we don't assign any bad apple cops to airports. None would be needed. Put cops back out on the streets where they can crack down on street crime.
You are joking, right?

A TSA Supervisor who has no authority to arrest, threatened to arrest a passenger at a airport in the Northwest in December 2014 - because the passenger had a shirt with the "f" word on it.

A TSA manager refused to permit medically exempt liquids because, in part the traveler only paid less than a few dollars per bottle.

A TSA Supervisor tells a passenger along the lines You acting ignorant like that, you deserve to get a pat-down; then later the same supervisor "steals" the passengers cell phone.

A TSA Supervisor berates a passenger for filming and says "you better respect this badge".

And you want these people to have arrest authority? No thank you.
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Old Nov 26, 2015, 11:42 am
  #55  
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Originally Posted by gingersnaps
A TSA Supervisor who has no authority to arrest, threatened to arrest a passenger at a airport in the Northwest in December 2014 - because the passenger had a shirt with the "f" word on it.

A TSA manager refused to permit medically exempt liquids because, in part the traveler only paid less than a few dollars per bottle.

A TSA Supervisor tells a passenger along the lines You acting ignorant like that, you deserve to get a pat-down; then later the same supervisor "steals" the passengers cell phone.

A TSA Supervisor berates a passenger for filming and says "you better respect this badge".

And you want these people to have arrest authority? No thank you.
There's a Supreme Court decision specific to the first issue. "F... the draft"

I pay $12 (retail) for prescription mouthwash, the TSA has never even asked the price, just sometimes waved their magic paper over it.

I'd be really tempted to inform them that I'll respect their badge when they start respecting the Constitution.
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Old Nov 26, 2015, 2:52 pm
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Originally Posted by sethb
There's a Supreme Court decision specific to the first issue. "F... the draft"

I pay $12 (retail) for prescription mouthwash, the TSA has never even asked the price, just sometimes waved their magic paper over it.

I'd be really tempted to inform them that I'll respect their badge when they start respecting the Constitution.
Not likely to happen.

The guy threatened with arrest was wearing a tshirt that read "FIRST AMENDMENT F$&K TSA SECURITY THEATER. COHEN V CALIFORNIA". The TSA supervisor took offense to the free-speech and wanted to arrest him.

Aaron Tobey was arrested for removing his clothing - except underwear - he wrote the 4th amendment on his chest. He sued TSA for violating his civil rights, free speech.
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Old Nov 26, 2015, 10:42 pm
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Originally Posted by gingersnaps
Not likely to happen.

The guy threatened with arrest was wearing a tshirt that read "FIRST AMENDMENT F$&K TSA SECURITY THEATER. COHEN V CALIFORNIA". The TSA supervisor took offense to the free-speech and wanted to arrest him.

Aaron Tobey was arrested for removing his clothing - except underwear - he wrote the 4th amendment on his chest. He sued TSA for violating his civil rights, free speech.
Cohen v. California was the Supreme Court case I referred to.

The trick is to get the TSA agent to tell you to remove the clothing with metal.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 4:39 am
  #58  
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Originally Posted by chollie
SO calls cops, cops show up and, in far too many cases, shut the photographer down - not based on the law, which in this case the cop should know as well or better than the TSO, but based on the demand of the TSO.
If its legal for people to video checkpoints, how would a cop be able to shut it down? If the person is telling the TSO no, why can't they tell the cop no as well?
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 6:53 am
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Originally Posted by TMM1982
If its legal for people to video checkpoints, how would a cop be able to shut it down? If the person is telling the TSO no, why can't they tell the cop no as well?
And risk being taken down for questioning a cop? We know those cops assigned to airports are neither the best nor the brightest or have been sent to the airport for disciplinary reasons. I for one would not trust that they know the law or the Constitution.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 6:56 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
And risk being taken down for questioning a cop?
In light of what's happening with police in the country this past year, I doubt very much a cop is going "take you down" for continuing to legally videotape an airport checkpoint area. That would result in just another large settlement for the victim.
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