Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Reload this Page >

"Countries visited on this trip prior to U.S. arrival"

Community
Wiki Posts
Search

"Countries visited on this trip prior to U.S. arrival"

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 4, 2015, 2:21 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 79
Israel and Canada questions its citizens when returning home, but spare the unnecessary secondary screening unless you are really acting suspicious (though, Israel unashamingly racial and religious profiles).

U.S. immigration is rather paranoid on what is outside its borders. Why do you think that the DHS still requires to take off your shoes and recheck your luggage through security for your connecting flight just because you came from an international origin? Even if you are a US citizen.

It does not surprise me why the DHS want to open up more US pre-clearance methods in foreign airports.

Last edited by FateSucks; Jul 4, 2015 at 2:28 am
FateSucks is offline  
Old Jul 5, 2015, 5:03 am
  #17  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
Originally Posted by Blueskyheaven
Is it only the US that asks its citizens to answer where you are coming from, which countries you visited and for how long when we enter our own country at the airport immigration counter?
Canada doesn't require the information on the declaration form only your incoming flight information and whether you arrived from the U.S., via the U.S. or directly from another country.

You may be asked "where are you coming from" which to me means the last country I was in. I have occasionally been asked "did you visit any other countries" and provided the information.
Badenoch is offline  
Old Jul 5, 2015, 11:17 pm
  #18  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: IAD
Posts: 735
Post

This can be viewed as entrapment, lets say you visit Cuba without a Treasury licence or a valid licence exemption. If you do not list Cuba you have made a false declaration to CBP. If you list Cuba you have admitted to a crime.

Of course, the Cuba travel issue should be "fixed" in the next few years. Also as far as I know the US government does not prohibit travel to any other nations. But I am sure there are other cases where this could be entrapment for some.
IAD_flyer is offline  
Old Jul 6, 2015, 12:00 am
  #19  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,776
Originally Posted by Often1
Don't overthink or parse the truth on these things. If you are flying to the US with a connection in Mexico, just how hard is it to list Mexico?

The advice to simply list the countries where you have been present on this trip seems to be a fair and simple reading.
It is simple only for those whose main residence is in the US and who take a straightforward "trip" out of the US to 1 or 5 or 12 countries.

As others noted above, it is NOT simple for those of us who live out of the USA (in my case, in Australia) and who take numerous "trips" to other parts of the world between visits to the US.

Say, for example, that I last visited the USA 10 years ago, and since then I have traveled frequently to other parts of the world.

Now I fly direct SYD-LAX where I am asked "countries visited on this trip prior to U.S. arrival". Options:
  • None: on this trip I started in Australia, and I wasn't visiting, I live there.
  • One: on this trip I was in Australia "prior to US arrival".
  • 15: All the countries I've been in the last 10 years since I was in the US. (Maybe 8 European countries, 3 in Oceania, and 4 in Asia will look a bit odd for one "trip.")
  • 20: The above plus another 5 countries where I was only in transit.
Please suggest the "simple" option for the above.
Originally Posted by Blueskyheaven
Is it only the US that asks its citizens to answer where you are coming from, which countries you visited and for how long when we enter our own country at the airport immigration counter?
Australia asks "residents departing temporarily" (note, not the same as "citizens") to specify (on departure) "the country where you will spend the most time abroad" and asks "returning residents" (on arrival) "the country where you spent the most time abroad." In both cases they ask how long you will be (were) away.

Foreign visitors are asked only for their country of residence and Australians emigrating are asked for their new country of residence.

For many trips in recent years I've been working in one country and staying in a hotel 15 minutes away in another country, so I always hesitate at "which country will you (did you) spend the most time?"
RadioGirl is online now  
Old Jul 6, 2015, 12:23 am
  #20  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YUL
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by FateSucks
Why do you think that the DHS still requires to take off your shoes and recheck your luggage through security for your connecting flight just because you came from an international origin? Even if you are a US citizen.
You need to recheck your luggage because it needs to be available for inspection by CBP at your first point of entry. After you've had contact with your checked luggage all bets are off as to security as there are many things that can be transported in checked luggage that are prohibited in the cabin, hence the need to re-screen passengers regardless of their citizenship.
ls17031 is offline  
Old Jul 6, 2015, 8:28 am
  #21  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: gggrrrovvveee (ORD)
Programs: UA Pt, Marriott Ti, Hertz PC
Posts: 6,091
Originally Posted by IAD_flyer
This can be viewed as entrapment, lets say you visit Cuba without a Treasury licence or a valid licence exemption. If you do not list Cuba you have made a false declaration to CBP. If you list Cuba you have admitted to a crime.

Of course, the Cuba travel issue should be "fixed" in the next few years. Also as far as I know the US government does not prohibit travel to any other nations. But I am sure there are other cases where this could be entrapment for some.
That's not what "entrapment" means. Nobody is tricking you into committing a crime or compromising the law.
gobluetwo is offline  
Old Jul 6, 2015, 11:15 am
  #22  
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between DCA and IAD
Programs: UA 1K MM; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 67,119
Originally Posted by ls17031
You need to recheck your luggage because it needs to be available for inspection by CBP at your first point of entry. After you've had contact with your checked luggage all bets are off as to security as there are many things that can be transported in checked luggage that are prohibited in the cabin, hence the need to re-screen passengers regardless of their citizenship.
Shame the US can't go to a model of clearing immigration & customs on arrival at your final destination, though I sort of get why that would be impractical at many airports in the US. (Staff CBP agents at a small regional airport that gets 2x turboprops a day and typically 0 of the pax arriving are coming from international flights?!)

I do wish they'd come up with a way for true transit pax who are not setting foot in the US itself to avoid clearing immigration & customs, but that would require we redesign terminals at many airports to keep the international and domestic flights segregated.
exerda is offline  
Old Jul 6, 2015, 1:42 pm
  #23  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: IAD
Posts: 735
Originally Posted by gobluetwo
That's not what "entrapment" means. Nobody is tricking you into committing a crime or compromising the law.
Okay entrapment was not the correct word to use. But it is a catch-22 situation.
IAD_flyer is offline  
Old Jul 7, 2015, 8:37 am
  #24  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,505
Originally Posted by IAD_flyer
Okay entrapment was not the correct word to use. But it is a catch-22 situation.
what you are talking about is forced self-incrimination - in the US this is usually protected by the 5th Amendment to the Constitution.
Section 107 is offline  
Old Jul 7, 2015, 9:11 am
  #25  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by exerda
Shame the US can't go to a model of clearing immigration & customs on arrival at your final destination, though I sort of get why that would be impractical at many airports in the US. (Staff CBP agents at a small regional airport that gets 2x turboprops a day and typically 0 of the pax arriving are coming from international flights?!)

I do wish they'd come up with a way for true transit pax who are not setting foot in the US itself to avoid clearing immigration & customs, but that would require we redesign terminals at many airports to keep the international and domestic flights segregated.
That's more or less impossible though. Forget about the staffing issue. Think about this: you're coming in from an international flight and then taking a regional flight. 95% of the people on that regional flight are flying domestically, how would they know to single out 1 or 2 people for inspection because their point of origin was from a foreign country? And how would that work? They'd have to check every single passenger, whereas normally when you're leaving a domestic flight you can just walk out of the airport.
dasanmarco is offline  
Old Jul 7, 2015, 10:48 pm
  #26  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,410
Originally Posted by FateSucks
Israel and Canada questions its citizens when returning home, but spare the unnecessary secondary screening unless you are really acting suspicious (though, Israel unashamingly racial and religious profiles).

U.S. immigration is rather paranoid on what is outside its borders. Why do you think that the DHS still requires to take off your shoes and recheck your luggage through security for your connecting flight just because you came from an international origin? Even if you are a US citizen.

It does not surprise me why the DHS want to open up more US pre-clearance methods in foreign airports.
The luggage recheck is inevitable. There are many things permitted in checked baggage that are not permitted in carry-on baggage. Since you have to take your bags through customs you are now not sterile as far as airside security is concerned.
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old Jul 7, 2015, 10:52 pm
  #27  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,410
Originally Posted by RadioGirl
[*]15: All the countries I've been in the last 10 years since I was in the US. (Maybe 8 European countries, 3 in Oceania, and 4 in Asia will look a bit odd for one "trip.")
I've managed to rack up 20+ twice--while actually living in the US. I believe my father just listed continents on the form because there was no hope of fitting the countries in.
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old Jul 9, 2015, 4:58 am
  #28  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Thailand, Phuket
Programs: Emirates, Thai, TK
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by FateSucks
Israel and Canada questions its citizens when returning home, but spare the unnecessary secondary screening unless you are really acting suspicious (though, Israel unashamingly racial and religious profiles).

U.S. immigration is rather paranoid on what is outside its borders. Why do you think that the DHS still requires to take off your shoes and recheck your luggage through security for your connecting flight just because you came from an international origin? Even if you are a US citizen.

It does not surprise me why the DHS want to open up more US pre-clearance methods in foreign airports.
Some people think that using racial and religious profiling is bad for security reasons but i don't have a problem what that at all.
Reality is that some group of people are a higher risk and requires more attention.
We should reduce the political correctness behavior and say and act on how it is in reality.
merijn is offline  
Old Jul 9, 2015, 6:27 am
  #29  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Originally Posted by IAD_flyer
This can be viewed as entrapment, lets say you visit Cuba without a Treasury licence or a valid licence exemption. If you do not list Cuba you have made a false declaration to CBP. If you list Cuba you have admitted to a crime.

Of course, the Cuba travel issue should be "fixed" in the next few years. Also as far as I know the US government does not prohibit travel to any other nations. But I am sure there are other cases where this could be entrapment for some.
Originally Posted by IAD_flyer
Okay entrapment was not the correct word to use. But it is a catch-22 situation.
No it isn't, because it has never been illegal for US citizens to travel to Cuba - it was the act of spending money there without the proper license, etc. So, simply declaring you visited Cuba on a customs form would not be admitting to a crime.
84fiero is offline  
Old Jul 12, 2015, 4:49 am
  #30  
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
Originally Posted by 84fiero
No it isn't, because it has never been illegal for US citizens to travel to Cuba - it was the act of spending money there without the proper license, etc. So, simply declaring you visited Cuba on a customs form would not be admitting to a crime.
OFAC operates on a "presumption of guilt" where they basically assume that anyone who went to Cuba must have spent money there. Unless you claim that you were somehow given food, water and shelter completely free of charge, you aren't going to have much of a defense to that. Declaring that you visited Cuba would not be admitting to a crime, but it would be giving the government everything they need (under their own standards) to find you guilty of a crime.
cbn42 is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.