Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Reload this Page >

Author Nick Hornby ("High Fidelity" denied entry to US

Author Nick Hornby ("High Fidelity" denied entry to US

Old Feb 12, 2015, 7:32 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: BA blue, LH Senator, KQ (FB) gold
Posts: 8,215
Originally Posted by mre5765
If Hornby was importing books to sign and sell, then he would be engaging in business requiring a visa. Instead he was signing books that were legally printed or imported by some other entity, and legally sold by entities in the USA. Signing books surely encouraged more sales, but the benefits went to the book seller and the US publisher.

As a published author myself, I can assure you that there is no way the royalties he would have earned on sales of the signed hard bound books would have come any near to covering his travel expenses. I earn five percent of each retail transaction on my book. The hardcover edition of High Fideity retails for about $40. Assuming $3000 for air fare, $1000 for hotel and other expenses, that is 1000 books to sign just to break even. To close a real estate with fewer than 25 documents to sign takes me two hours at a title company. Do the math.

Note to self: next time I am in foreign country and am approached to sign a book, decline because I am breaking some silly immigration law.

Or give my reader two dollars to offset my royalty.

Good lord the stupidty of DHS never ceases to amaze one.
I agree, not because I consider that immigration laws are necessarily silly, but because unpaid promotional acitivities are simply not commercial activity, even if the end result may through complex channels generate income for the individual. Where do you draw the line?

While Mr. Hornby's activities would undoubtedly result in increased sales of his book, those transactions are not conducted with Mr. Hornby but with the bookstore that is actually selling his books. He is not being directly remunerated for his activities.

When Bono gives a speech promoting poverty alleviation, it raises his public stature and undoubtedly boosts his record sales. Would that be considered work?

When a politician speaks abroad, is that considered work? What about if they have also published a book?
You want to go where? is offline  
Old Feb 12, 2015, 9:42 am
  #17  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: CPH
Programs: Delta SM
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by You want to go where?
When a politician speaks abroad, is that considered work? What about if they have also published a book?
I have a friend who runs a tour company. Typically a group of seniors pay him to arrange trips, busses, airplanes, and hotels in places such as China, Russia, Ireland, and now Cuba. He travels with them and guides them every step of the way. He is, for all intents and purposes, "on the clock".

He must be working illegally in all those countries, I suppose.
FredAnderssen is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 5:02 am
  #18  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Originally Posted by You want to go where?
I agree, not because I consider that immigration laws are necessarily silly, but because unpaid promotional acitivities are simply not commercial activity, even if the end result may through complex channels generate income for the individual. Where do you draw the line?

While Mr. Hornby's activities would undoubtedly result in increased sales of his book, those transactions are not conducted with Mr. Hornby but with the bookstore that is actually selling his books. He is not being directly remunerated for his activities.

When Bono gives a speech promoting poverty alleviation, it raises his public stature and undoubtedly boosts his record sales. Would that be considered work?

When a politician speaks abroad, is that considered work? What about if they have also published a book?
People pay a lot for foreign politicians to speak in the US. A buddy of mine used to handle the likes of Nelson Mandela's contracts for speeches in the OECD world; and it wasn't cheap. FWdC, his counterpart who released him, was more available and cost less, but it was big bucks too. They got paid big bucks to speak and frequently had their travel costs often covered on top of that.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 7:50 am
  #19  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: BA blue, LH Senator, KQ (FB) gold
Posts: 8,215
Originally Posted by GUWonder
People pay a lot for foreign politicians to speak in the US. A buddy of mine used to handle the likes of Nelson Mandela's contracts for speeches in the OECD world; and it wasn't cheap. FWdC, his counterpart who released him, was more available and cost less, but it was big bucks too. They got paid big bucks to speak and frequently had their travel costs often covered on top of that.
True, but they were acting as private citizens. I was thinking of politicians coming in their guise as Prime Minister, President, and the like. To pick a current example, when Netanyahu is speaking to the US Congress, it could increase the sales of his book. Is he therefore required to have a visa which allows employment in the US? (and yes, I know I am going to extremes, here. I am just taking certain lines of thinking to their logical, though extreme conclusion. It is a rhetorical question).
You want to go where? is offline  
Old Feb 16, 2015, 9:02 am
  #20  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: Double OWE (AA EXP, QF Plat), FI Gold
Posts: 1,887
Originally Posted by FredAnderssen
I have a friend who runs a tour company. Typically a group of seniors pay him to arrange trips, busses, airplanes, and hotels in places such as China, Russia, Ireland, and now Cuba. He travels with them and guides them every step of the way. He is, for all intents and purposes, "on the clock".

He must be working illegally in all those countries, I suppose.
As long as he was working with the correct permissions and kept himself up-to-date with the tax requirements in each jurisdiction and paid any taxes due, he would be legal. I presume from your post that you're saying he never gained a work visa or paid taxes in these countries, so yes, he would be working illegally. As a former tour guide myself, having worked in 18 countries, I was lucky to have an employer that invested much time and money in an entire department to ensure that we were legal. It's a pain, but compared to the consequences of getting caught working illegally in some of those countries, compliance is the better deal.

And why is abiding by the law so bad? Yes, it can be complex and reduces your income in most cases, but that's part and parcel of doing business internationally.
zpaul is offline  
Old Feb 18, 2015, 4:00 pm
  #21  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Programs: A3, AA. Plasticy things! That give me, y'know, Stuff!
Posts: 6,293
Originally Posted by zpaul
My understanding is that an "O" visa would apply in this case - Visa for Persons of Extraordinary Ability (which has a very loose interpretation). This normally covers people coming for paid speaking engagements, among many other things, so I think it would apply in this case.
No. He's not likely to be paid in the US directly. His agent would be paid. He is merely acting for his employer (himself and/or agent and/or publishers), which may (or may not) have a consequent effect upon sales. A B1 visa would be easy to get and appropriate. Heck, a VWP for business would probably be broadly qualify as appropriate so long as he can guarantee that no one pays him for anything while in the US.
SeriouslyLost is offline  
Old Feb 24, 2015, 2:54 pm
  #22  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: Double OWE (AA EXP, QF Plat), FI Gold
Posts: 1,887
Originally Posted by SeriouslyLost
No. He's not likely to be paid in the US directly. His agent would be paid. He is merely acting for his employer (himself and/or agent and/or publishers), which may (or may not) have a consequent effect upon sales. A B1 visa would be easy to get and appropriate. Heck, a VWP for business would probably be broadly qualify as appropriate so long as he can guarantee that no one pays him for anything while in the US.
Exactly as I pointed out in my second post. I think we're on the same page.
zpaul is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.