jphripjah

I just ran across this article today, I thought it was pretty good:

http://www.returnofkings.com/46037/h...icials-and-win

As we've discussed before, if you are going to refuse to answer questions, you do have to be prepared for the possibility of intimidation, delay, subsequent flaggings for secondary inspection, etc. But if you're a U.S. citizen they can't deny you entry or arrest you for refusing to answer.

Blueskyheaven

Thanks for this article. Will never forget the mistreatment at BUffalo border when coming back from Toronto

AllieKat

To quote from that site: "Return Of Kings is a blog for heterosexual, masculine men. It’s meant for a small but vocal collection of men in America today who believe men should be masculine and women should be feminine."

In other words it's a bizarre homophobic cult that believes that being d***s to CBP officers just doing their job somehow makes them manly men? Oh, and throw in childish words like "goons and dweebs" to make it extra manly-man... I feel sick.

Count me out.

You're crossing an international border, while I agree some officers are awful (notably, CBSA in Canada - they're the worst - they're just downright abusive) and that needs to stop, I've never seen behaviour so bad as to justify the horrible way these people treat CBP officers. Respect is a two-way street. Believe it or not, Customs serves a critical role in protecting society, collecting fair taxes that are owed, and keeping dangerous drugs off the street. Respect them, and usually, most of the time (Canada is an exception), I have found you'll get respect back.

But respect wouldn't be hyper-super-duper-masculine, now would it?

IceTrojan

Ignoring the societal beliefs and leanings of the author and site, it was a pretty badly-written article.

AllieKat

Exactly, even if you take that out it was nothing but one giant steaming pile of click bait. Learn to respect people. Customs DOES have a key role. A lot of people on this site get so angry, because we've all been on the wrong end of an angry customs officer on a power trip (generally Canadian, in my own experience). That doesn't change the fact that customs is really important.

What I find most amazing is the same people who act like this toward customs officers tend to be the ones who ask our government to do MORE about drugs and illegal immigration *face palm* - they often LOVE the idea of interrogation and searching when it isn't happening to white males.

jphripjah

What's so horrible or disrespectful about saying "I decline to answer your question" when CBP asks questions unrelated to your citizenship?

AllieKat

Because it is CUSTOMS and border protection. They have a responsibility to address customs concerns as well.

jphripjah

They can address them by searching your bags after reading your written declaration of where you went and what you are bringing back.

If they are asking a US citizen questions unrelated to his citizenship/admissibility, then they are essentially asking you questions to determine if you are involved in unlawful activity, and I don't think it's impolite to tell them that you choose not to answer.

Regular police officers have a responsibility to enforce drug laws too, but if a traffic cop started asking me where I'm coming from, whether I have drugs in the car, et.c I would decline not to answer. You can disagree with that approach, but I don't think it qualifies as horrible, disrespectful treatment of law enforcement officers to refuse to answer their questions.

GUWonder

Answering some of the CBP questions -- on a written declaration and/or via a verbal declaration -- helps the CBP to skip over hassling some US citizens for no good reason.

The above said, the U.S. and Canada are rather unique in the world when it comes to how frequently and extensively they hassle returning citizens even as the US and Canada hold no monopoly on types of customs and border control challenges. That just means we should ask why the US and Canada border control agents behave this way and get away with it with general impunity. Unfortunately, the answer to such a question is that the people in these countries have the paranoid/suspicious/hostile government and government employees and practices which we/they deserve.

When given the choice and at the margin, it's CBSA and/or US CBP related hassle risk that drives me to avoid routing via the US and/or Canada on trips to/from non-US/non-Canadian locations. Unfortunately the "losses" related to that won't change a thing.

FlyIgglesFly

I'm an American citizen. My private life is my private life. If my government wants to question me about it, I have the right to tell them nothing. That doesn't change because I want to go abroad for awhile, just like it doesn't change that they tax me on my foreign income even if I don't set foot inside the US for entire year.

Look, I'm not saying I always refuse to answer or am purposefully obstreperous, but if I don't feel like answering a bunch of nonsense because the agent is being a jerk, I won't. I've generally got the time that they can waste, and while they're bothering me someone else who might be less equipped to handle such questioning might get to avoid it.

FlyingMBA

AllieKat, what happened at Canadian customs that created such a negative impression? I've rarely if ever had a problem with Canadian CBP. The few bad experiences I've had have largely been with US CBP.

I'm a Canadian citizen though. Maybe that's why?

AllieKat

Well, let's see. At the airport I've been sent to secondary a couple times, but I'm okay with that - like I said, I understand the necessity. They're just usually rude, even at primary. Actually, I think the secondary people are much nicer to deal with!

Now, land crossings are another story. OMG... they're just jerks. One time I was pulled inside for secondary once and literally screamed at for about 45 minutes about how he had my criminal record and he knew everything I'd been up to and he knew I was coming up to work, so just admit it. Actually, I have no criminal record and I was coming up to catch a flight out of Calgary - I had tickets and nothing to hide so I just stuck to the truth and eventually it was over and I was sent on my way, but the experience was horrible.

Other times, they've just been rude and/or stupid. I took some Taiwanese kids up to Calgary (it's the closest real city to here) to go shopping once, the idiot tried to tell them they needed visas to get into Canada. She had the wrong China, of course (Taiwan is legally the Republic of China). She looked embarrassed when we pointed that out after she looked it up (YES, she had to look it up) but made no apology.

But the worst was the screaming. That guy has never pulled me inside again, but he always makes it a point to be a rude arse. CBSA at the land border watch too many "how to be a moronic dumb arse of a cop" shows, and have no real knowledge.

But nah, to be fair, no complaints at the airports. They're just grumpy usually, better than US CBP airport staff are.

FlyingMBA

God, whoever that CBP officer is deserves to be cashiered. Unprofessional. Sorry to hear you had to go through that AllieKat.

Back to the thread. Regarding that article -- everyone here should be damned careful about how you act around CBP personnel, particularly at border crossings. I checked around and border inspections require a much lower standard of "reasonable and probable grounds" and the officers can detain and delay you pretty much at will. If you ARE detained by Canadian CBP, you're entitled to counsel and CBP has to give you access to a phone and you can make as many calls as you need to to actually speak to a lawyer.

I have a highly jaundiced view of the returnofkings site. It's essentially an MRA hangout. Don't trust everything you read there.

JW76

What I don't get is how I can enter the UK by just swiping my UK passport and never speak to a single official upon arrival at Heathrow but when returning here with my US passport I have to go through this ridiculous process of being interrogated every time (despite having Global Entry). And don't get me started on Canada, despite being a citizen of that country too! I have had more pleasant border crossings in Saudi Arabia, Russia and Burma than I have in my own country fer crissakes. </rant off>

WaxComb

How do you get interrogated every time with GE? All I ever got was "Do you have food?" and "Is that your bag?". (The second one was at YUL entering US Pre-clearance.)