chollie

False equivalence.

I don't see anyone disputing CBP's right to suspend ordinary US citizen rights temporarily, ask questions and search bags.

I do see (and agree) with people who believe it is not CBP's mission or right to enable and support CBP agents abusing the authority of their badge.

These are not military interrogations. There is no need to 'soften up' the pax being questioned with rude or insulting questions and treatment. I don't care whether an abusive agent is overstepping his/her boundaries because s/he is having a bad day, is a bully, or is an ex-CIA interrogator who believes, like most of his/her co-workers, that all returning US citizens are guilty until temporarily proved innocent. It's quite possible to conduct a thorough interrogation without bullying and harassment.

I also don't believe, as an American, that the answer to abuses and problems in our government are OK if there is at least one other nation on earth doing a worse job - so please don't bother to bring Israel up. (FWIW, as a Christian, I've always wanted to go to Israel. It is because of stories about Israeli airport experiences that I have chosen not to go).

chollie

So with all due respect, are you suggesting that occasionally you approached an officer with a bit of attitude, a bit full of yourself - and that's why on those occasions you encountered someone who responded to your minor attitude with similar bad attitude? Did you 'ask' and 'receive'?

I'm puzzled as to why you give the officers a virtual complete pass for unprofessional behavior (even if it's just being 'a bit full of himself'). Certainly CBP has all the power and there's little recourse for pax. The situation itself is wrong.

CBP folks are very well-paid government professionals. It is not too much to expect them to behave like professionals - or find another job if they can't. One unprofessional bullying CBP agent wastes not only the time of the innocent pax he harasses, he also wastes the time of agents in secondary who shouldn't be distracted by retaliatory referrals. He puts a greater share of work on any professional agents because they have to do extra work handling pax while he wastes time on pointless bullying. He's also putting everyone genuinely at risk, because while he's distracted by his own surly bullying, he's at risk of missing genuine risk signals.

Badenoch

I have a lifetime of experience dealing with minor functionaries and pettifogging bureaucrats so have very low expectations of their professionalism. My undergarments don't get bunched if one is a bit of a jerk. I'm not particularly inclined to righting every wrong, correcting every minor affront or doing a Norma Rae imitation every time I enter a country or go through a security check. I don't fight meager battles. YMMV.

chollie

I'm getting lost in your inconsistencies.

Badenoch

Nothing inconsistent about it. I don't act like an entitled jerk when dealing with customs agents, have very low expectations of their professionalism, have not encountered one that I'd put in the category of "abusive" just a very small minority who were a bit officious, moderately discourteous and at times dense.

I can't do much about it going into another country as foreign visitors don't have the same rights as legal residents. Returning to Canada I have not encountered behavior that I felt was worth making a federal case about it. Minor irritations at most.

FliesWay2Much

Rule #1: Don't answer the question that wasn't asked. This is a good approach with any pseudo or actual law enforcement individual. (Obviously, an encounter with a cop on the street or as a result of a traffic stop or checkpoint requires a higher standard concerning answering questions.)

Rule #2: When entering someone else's country, act like a respectful guest.

Rule #3: When abroad, deflect with humor. At YOW, I had a Canadian customs guy ask me if I was "leaving anything in Canada." My answer was, "Some good advice, I hope." At SYD, I once told the immigration officer, "We've been flying all night and I'm brain-dead, so, please don't ask me any hard questions." Her response: "What makes you think we're not all brain-dead for working here?"

Rule #4: When coming home, try the humor deflection approach but be ready to push back if necessary. Decades ago, as a young USAF captain, I had the dubious distinction of accompanying home two weapon control system computers that died shortly after installation. We needed to do troubleshooting immediately at the prime contractor. So, I loaded two wooden crates weighing ~80# each (computers were encased in small arms fire steel shielding) onto a luggage cart and went up to a customs guy in SEA. Although I had all the required military customs and shipping forms, he started giving me a hard time in a loud voice. After putting up with him for a minute or so, I finally looked him right in the eye, pointed my finger at him, and said, "Look, pal. I don't think we have a problem smuggling high-tech INTO the country, do you?" That shut him up and I was on my way to San Diego.

Bottom line: When abroad, go with the flow and do your homework ahead of time so you know what to expect. When at home, expect the level of professionalism your tax dollars are paying for.

djtsukasa

Come on guys.... it's not a "sheep vs wolf" debate. You can't possibly tell me that just because you give a CBPO an attitude you're a "wolf." I think the bottom line is, like it's been said earlier; don't be a jerk to them and you usually won't get anything back. Those of you arguing otherwise, sure, everyone experiences that from time to time. If it's more than "occasionally," I'd say you're doing something that's triggering this response from them. I've never had a problem with customs.

jphripjah

If a cop pulls me over for speeding and says "Where are you coming from?" I don't think politely declining to answer is being a jerk. The cop may or may not get angry, call for a drug dog, who knows.

Similarly, if a CBP officer, after establishing my citizenship, asks me why I was in Malaysia, I don't think refusing to answer is being a jerk. The CBP officer might then hold me for two hours, try to get me to answer, who knows.

I understand that the right to be free from searches is less at the border, but CBP officers have no more or less lawful authority to ask US citizens questions, or to demand answers, than a traffic cop. The travelers right against self-incrimination applies in both cases, and I don't think travelers should be punished by traffic cops or CBP officers for refusing to answer questions about what they are up to.

Blogndog

Exactly, but many cops, and apparently a few people on Flyertalk, equate exercising your rights -- no matter how politely or respectfully asserted -- with "being a jerk," and therefore legitimately subject to petty retaliatory measures.

I would agree that if there is an individual who always has problems where others do not, the fault may lie with the individual.

Similarly, myself and apparently many others on this board never have any problems anywhere in the world except with CBP, and particularly CBSA. It's only appropriate to apply the same logic and conclude that there is an institutional problem with these two agencies.

FredAnderssen

Challenging a cop's authority is the worst crime you can commit. Retaliation in some cases can result in tasering, beatings, shootings, and strangulation.

chollie

Yes.

That does not justify retaliatory actions.

If a cop/agent/TSO/doctor/lawyer/barista is so strung out that he/she can no longer deal with people without going ballistic and even killing someone, then that individual needs to get help.

FlyIgglesFly

I generally don't like answering people's questions about my life. My coworkers, my friends, my family, anyone. Anyone who knows me well understands you'll get what information from me that I'm willing to disclose and nothing more. I shouldn't have to answer such questions to enter a country of which I am a citizen. Search my bags all you want, I won't care and I'll understand. But asking me why I went somewhere, then not liking my answer, or the fact that I'm too vague, or deflect it? "Fifth."

I'm not a disagreeable person, but I have as much right to ask a CBP officer what his/her hobbies are and what he/she enjoys doing with his/her significant other than he has a right to know why I went to XXXX and what I was doing there, so long as I'm bringing in nothing illegal. And keeping my mouth shut keeps them from misconstruing something and causing a bigger fiasco because common sense, or the constitution, was unable to be applied.

essxjay

Folks,

We've removed or edited more than a dozen posts for multiple reasons (and several of you have been sent PMs with detailed feedback). Kindly leave the personalizing out of the discussion and stick to responding to the ideas presented rather than your particular personality issues with others.

Thanks to the 99.8% of you who post within the rules. ^

essxjay, TS/S moderator

freeflyer

Before getting NEXUS, I used do to something similar. When returning home, I'd answer questions about my luggage, but otherwise I simply said "I don't answer personal questions."

Blogndog

Yep -- really difficult to believe that people who have seen Eric Garner getting murdered on video can still insist that all it takes is a good attitude and everything will be fine.