Delta Employee Help Smuggle Guns On Board
Dec 23, 2014, 3:43 pm
#16
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: DL MM Gold
Posts: 1,676
If a baggage handler can be bribed to carry guns past security, they can be bribed to place explosives onto a plane. To those who say even a criminal baggage handler or TSA clerk wouldn't do THAT, imagine if they THOUGHT the backpack just had guns. The person who bribed them is under no compulsion to tell the truth about the contents.
Dec 23, 2014, 3:57 pm
#17
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,952
If you feel Airline X is not secure, take Airline Y. The federal government should not be involved in the decision-making process and should certainly be prohibited from dictating security protocol, given the mockery they've made of the process.
Dec 23, 2014, 4:12 pm
#18
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Now it's up to 153 +/- weapons over 7 months.
Thompson is Brooklyn DA Kenneth Thompson.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/us/del...gun-smuggling/
"If they can put guns on the plane this time," he told reporters, "they could have easily put a bomb on one of those planes."...
"We have an egregious breach of security" at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport because airport employees "are not required to go through screening," said Thompson.
"We have an egregious breach of security" at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport because airport employees "are not required to go through screening," said Thompson.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/us/del...gun-smuggling/
Last edited by petaluma1; Dec 23, 2014 at 4:18 pm
Dec 23, 2014, 5:04 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,866
The private sector is not the answer in every case.
Dec 23, 2014, 5:08 pm
#20
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,952
Singapore Changi airport manages it quite well. Airlines with common security practices could buddy up. However, I think airlines would come together and form a common sense security screening protocol, likely very similar to what was in place in mid-2001, with explosives detection and secured cockpit doors. There is absolutely no reason to continue to permit the federal government to infect our airports with its incompetence and criminal enterprise.
Dec 23, 2014, 5:25 pm
#22
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
So much for the effectiveness of "background checks". 
Various airports have had private security companies doing passenger and airline employee screening and had it work out fine.
Government has no monopoly over competence when it comes to airport security screening of ordinary passengers and airline employees so as to interdict contraband WEIs; but our government has a legal monopoly on bothering innocent passengers with its governmental incompetence and acting as if some of us innocents are more equal than the rest of us innocents.
Ari, I like that line about TSA being the hospital gown of airport security. May be borrowing that a bunch.
Various airports have had private security companies doing passenger and airline employee screening and had it work out fine.
Government has no monopoly over competence when it comes to airport security screening of ordinary passengers and airline employees so as to interdict contraband WEIs; but our government has a legal monopoly on bothering innocent passengers with its governmental incompetence and acting as if some of us innocents are more equal than the rest of us innocents.
Ari, I like that line about TSA being the hospital gown of airport security. May be borrowing that a bunch.
Dec 23, 2014, 5:32 pm
#23
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
It certainly is in this case. The federal government has been screwing the pooch on airline security and civil liberties for 13+ years. It's time to end the abuse.
Singapore Changi airport manages it quite well. Airlines with common security practices could buddy up. However, I think airlines would come together and form a common sense security screening protocol, likely very similar to what was in place in mid-2001, with explosives detection and secured cockpit doors. There is absolutely no reason to continue to permit the federal government to infect our airports with its incompetence and criminal enterprise.
Singapore Changi airport manages it quite well. Airlines with common security practices could buddy up. However, I think airlines would come together and form a common sense security screening protocol, likely very similar to what was in place in mid-2001, with explosives detection and secured cockpit doors. There is absolutely no reason to continue to permit the federal government to infect our airports with its incompetence and criminal enterprise.
The airlines should be motivated to provide good security as they do not want an incident or loss any more than the rest of us do.
That's classic!
Dec 23, 2014, 6:16 pm
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,866
The airlines will cut corners and provide less security than we have now if the latest round of cost-saving measures is any indication (cashew shrapnel, anyone?). There would also be even more issues than we have now with standardization of procedures. Hey, the TSA ain't perfect but it's better than for-profit security as far as I'm concerned.
Dec 23, 2014, 6:16 pm
#25
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,638
Now it's up to 153 +/- weapons over 7 months.
Thompson is Brooklyn DA Kenneth Thompson.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/us/del...gun-smuggling/
Thompson is Brooklyn DA Kenneth Thompson.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/us/del...gun-smuggling/
One background check, trusted for life.
I wonder who does TSA and airport employee one-time/good-for-life background checks and how those background checks compare with the 'must be renewed every 5 years' background checks so-called 'trusted travellers' receive.
Would something that disqualifies someone for TT status also be a deal-breaker for TSA employees and other airport workers?
Dec 23, 2014, 6:25 pm
#26
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,952
The airlines will cut corners and provide less security than we have now if the latest round of cost-saving measures is any indication (cashew shrapnel, anyone?). There would also be even more issues than we have now with standardization of procedures. Hey, the TSA ain't perfect but it's better than for-profit security as far as I'm concerned.
I firmly believe there will be less stupid harassment but the flights will not be any less secure by removing the idiocy. As was mentioned above, airlines have a vested interest in their planes not being blown up along with their passengers. The government really doesn't have that vested interest as it won't get fired, might not even permit itself to get sued.
Dec 23, 2014, 6:35 pm
#27
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
wow
TSA has in place an agreement with all the airports, That agreement outlines the security protocols that TSA is not responsible for. The airport is required to implement physical security of the buildings and grounds. It usually contracts that out to a private company. I spoke to a pilot today who said that it looks like the boys at Delta have set in motion something that will change the process for all employees. He was not happy about that.
Dec 23, 2014, 6:45 pm
#28
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
TSA doesn't want to publicly admit it owns airport perimeter securirty because then that would expose the TSA to even more ridicule than its already ridiculous "security" theater acts. But every airport in the US being used by the common carriers' flights is subject to the TSA wanting and approving the "security" plan for the airport -- that includes airport perimeter and tarmac security.
TSA, "you want it, you own it." Failures included.
TSA, "you want it, you own it." Failures included.
Dec 23, 2014, 7:30 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,082
TSA has in place an agreement with all the airports, That agreement outlines the security protocols that TSA is not responsible for. The airport is required to implement physical security of the buildings and grounds. It usually contracts that out to a private company. I spoke to a pilot today who said that it looks like the boys at Delta have set in motion something that will change the process for all employees. He was not happy about that.
What is so disturbing to me is that the agency tasked by Congress to safeguard the nations transportation systems has created and maintains a security program that allows an airport employee unscreened access to the so-called sterile area while carrying a backpack full of loaded weapons that ends up in the passenger cabin of commercial aircraft.
That is security TSA style!
Dec 23, 2014, 8:22 pm
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SJC, SFO, YYC
Programs: AA-EXP, AA-0.41MM, UA-Gold, Ex UA-1K (2006 thru 2015), PMUA-0.95MM, COUA-1.5MM-lite, AF-Silver
Posts: 13,437
Bags with weapons that have been cleared are locked.
The idea is to prevent introduction of none screened weapons. Airport employees have an easy means to introduce contraband since TSA has failed to screen all airport workers.
Aircraft parts are inventory controlled.
Mechanics tools should be under a tight tool control program to ensure that no tools are accidentally left on an airplane after a maintenance function.
Mechanics, pilots, baggage handlers, and all others that have cleared security when entering the sterile area would have no need for further screening unless they departed the sterile area. Going from the ramp to an airplane would still be inside the sterile area.
Think of it from how passengers are screened. Controlled access points to enter but once in you can go airport to airport without any additional screening until you depart the sterile area. At an airport like DFW once inside the sterile area a person can hop the train and go from one terminal to another without leaving the sterile area.
What TSA is providing now is just an illusion of security.
The idea is to prevent introduction of none screened weapons. Airport employees have an easy means to introduce contraband since TSA has failed to screen all airport workers.
Aircraft parts are inventory controlled.
Mechanics tools should be under a tight tool control program to ensure that no tools are accidentally left on an airplane after a maintenance function.
Mechanics, pilots, baggage handlers, and all others that have cleared security when entering the sterile area would have no need for further screening unless they departed the sterile area. Going from the ramp to an airplane would still be inside the sterile area.
Think of it from how passengers are screened. Controlled access points to enter but once in you can go airport to airport without any additional screening until you depart the sterile area. At an airport like DFW once inside the sterile area a person can hop the train and go from one terminal to another without leaving the sterile area.
What TSA is providing now is just an illusion of security.
Who is taking inventory of aircraft parts? Not the TSA. You want the TSA in charge of the parts depot?
Who is going to oversee that tools are not left on planes? You want the TSA in charge of the tool chests?
The tarmac is not a sterile area. There are things on the tarmac not allowed in the cabin. E.g. All the stuff the TSA allows in checked bags that is contraband in carry ons.
How are you going to prevent catering truck drivers from bringing weapons on board? You are going to X-ray each and every beverage and food item?
What about the tools airport maintenance workers uses? You going to have the TSA manage those tool chests too?
What about each drop of ammonia and bleach the janitors have? You going to account for that? You do know what happens when ammonia and bleach are mixed right?
What about the firearms pilots and law enforcement officers bring into the "sterile" area?
As for illusion of security we've been calling it security theater since 9/11. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Last edited by mre5765; Dec 23, 2014 at 8:28 pm
