gsoltso

You know as well as I do, that there are others that access the luggage after it is inspected. I will not name the other persons with access, although I am certain that I have posted before. The object of my commentary in these threads is not to cast doubt upon any other group of people, but merely to ask for folks to pursue the truth, instead of jumping to conclusions. The unfounded accusations in these cases with cremains, may indeed be the fault of someone that works for TSA, they may not be.

Boggie Dog

If a TSA Note of Inspection is inside the luggage it is known for a fact that TSA opened the bag.

edit to add:

While you won't name the others who have access to passenger baggage can you name one group who has legal authority to open passenger bags other than TSA?

chollie

TSA is best positioned to refute these claims: they have access to the videos and more than enough manpower to research claims in a timely fashion. If TSA took aviation security seriously, they would take each of these claims seriously.

The problem is, the only evidence that ever seems to surface is generated by non-TSA sources (media, LE) and that evidence rarely if ever exonerates TSA. Quite the contrary.

Instead, TSA refuses to follow up on claims, deliberately running the clock out so any video evidence is gone. By trying to protect the agency, TSA leaves airport workers, all TSOs, and pax at risk. In an environment where TSOs are cutting off locks, rifling, damaging and stealing from luggage - or watching their co-workers do the same - it's clear that no one will say anything if something is slipped into a piece of luggage.

jkhuggins

Technically ... no.

If a TSA Note of Inspection is inside the luggage, it is known for a fact that someone opened the bag and inserted the note. Whether or not the person who inserted the note works for TSA is an open question.

WillCAD

You are absolutely correct.

But since we know for a fact that TSA opened a bag if there is a notice inside that says, "TSA opened this bag", the idea that unknown person or persons opened the bag AFTER TSA did - and hence could have inserted any sort of contraband, including explosive devices - completely negates the entire purpose of your agency.

If TSA has failed to establish a clear chain of custody, and failed to establish complete video surveillance of luggage through its entire trip from drop-off to pick-up, then the invasive screening of luggage is so incredibly useless as to be an exercise in insanity.

On the other hand... we may not know, but we know, ya know?

If you hear hoofbeats on a race track but continually insist that "Well, we don't know that it's horses, it could be zebras or unicorns or hippogriffs", you only serve to make a fool of yourself and insult those of us who know that it's freakin' horses making the hoofbeats on the horserace track.

TWA884

Second and final reminder!

Off-topic posts which have nothing to do with traveling with cremation ashes have been deleted.

TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator

gsoltso

I know of none, save in emergency situations.

I still consistently ask for passengers with cremains (or any other items damaged) to file the complaints. Whether the system works the way that some of us wish it did or not, the process can not be addressed in any way shape or form, if the organization does not know about it. I wish I could solve every single challenge that comes up personally - but I am just a front line guy, and HQ handles the actual complaints process... They are only able to begin addressing issues with disturbed/damaged cremains when the aggrieved party files an official complaint. Personally, I want every single baggage and checkpoint area under video surveillance that allows for the close monitoring of TSOs during screening processes - but that would cost a ton of money to put in place nationwide. Not saying it is not something we could accomplish, just pointing out the obvious cost involvement to put it in place.

This, just this.

Wow. <deleted> incorrect comparisons, what a way to start!

So you would like to begin with the premise that any incident of disturbed or damaged cremains is the fault of TSA. That is even worse than trying to sell Hippogriffs (they are endangered you know...)

I will simply post some facts and leave it at that.

1. Cremains (and other items in luggage) are subject to damage in any number of ways.
A. If a bag is handled roughly (whether by a person, a belt system, turbulence or some other unknown force), it can create damage to items in the bag.
B. If the bag is opened by someone and they purposely damage an item.
C. If the bag is opened and someone accidentally damages an item.

2. If you have a TSA note in a bag that was not there when you turned it in, you know that *someone* placed it in there (the odds are that it was placed by a TSA employee, but you do not have proof).

3. If a passenger has a bag with damaged cremains in it, they know only one thing for certain - the item has been damaged.

I am not saying that these cremains were not damaged by TSA, I am not saying that anyone else damaged the cremains - I am simply saying that it would better serve the individual and the public at large if there was a proper sorting out/investigation, as opposed to simply assuming what happened.

I also understand that folks traveling with cremains are also more apt to be upset or hurt or even crushed emotionally - each person handles things differently. I do not want anyone to see this and think that I am belittling those folks or their anger or emotions. I simply want the right answer to be given to them during what is probably one of the worst times of their lives.

jkhuggins

Why can't it?

I'm completely serious.

All the major airlines pay folks on their PR staff to monitor social media. When someone tweets "I hate the way I'm being treated on my BigName Airline right now", there's a decent chance that BigName Airline will DM them within a few minutes and ask for the details, hoping to resolve the situation right away. They don't wait for passengers to file formal complaints on their website; they're proactive enough to see if they can figure out the problem and fix it on-the-spot, often while there's still time to do so.

You seem to be saying that TSA can't fix a problem until the passenger takes the initiative to formally contact TSA with a full complaint. Why couldn't TSA take the initiative to reach out to passengers like these --- passengers who, as you note, are probably dealing with one of the worst moments of their lives --- and fill out the complaint form on behalf of the passenger? (And, oh, by the way, while they're at it, show some human compassion by offering a personal expression of sympathy and concern, rather than a cold website form?)

WillCAD

Lemme get this straight - are you seriously suggesting that if someone has something damaged, destroyed, or stolen from their checked bags and finds a TSA inspection notice inside, that the inspection notice may have been planted there by someone other than an inspecting TSO?!

That is way beyond just being a stretch of possibility, it's delusional. Or perhaps intentional obfuscation.

1. Who COULD plant such a notice?
2. Why would anyone plant such a notice after damaging, destroying, or stealing something in checked bags?
3. Who has access to these notices? Are TSOs handing out pads of them as souvenirs at the checkpoint?

If a passenger finds desecrated cremains, and also finds a TSA inspection notice in the bag, then we actually know two things: We know the cremains were desecrated, and we know that TSA opened the bag. Suggesting otherwise is simply an intentional false flag. TSA opened the bag, TSA left the notice. And let's face it - if TSA opened the bag, and TSA says they opened the bag, why would you continue to insist that someone other than TSA could have opened the bag and desecrated the cremains somewhere between drop off and pick up?

As I mentioned above, the mere fact that it's even possible for anyone other than TSA to access a checked bag while it's out of the owner's custody totally negates the entire purpose of your agency. It establishes a ready and clear threat vector directly into a vulnerable area of the aircraft.

If you want to eliminate these accusations, your agency needs to establish a clear chain of custody for checked bags from the moment they leave the owner's custody until the moment the owner picks them up again. ANYTHING less totally blows the whole idea of transportation security out of the water.

Of course, establishing a clear chain of custody might be a little much for TSA - as all true security measures seem to be - but if TSA simply wants to cover their collective butts against accusations of theft, vandalism, and damage due to gross incompetence or negligence, they could simply put cameras in the inspection areas pointed directly on each individual station, keep them running at all times, and use the footage to track down the individual TSOs who opened the affected bags. If they didn't damage the bag, the footage will show that. But if they did damage the bag, the footage will show that.

The fact that TSA is not immediately and eagerly forthcoming with said footage at each and every one of these accusations suggests to me that they either don't care (not surprising) or that they're actively covering up a pattern of irresponsible, reckless, negligent, or outright criminal behavior on the part of the rank and file TSOs.

Boggie Dog

There could be one other simple step that TSA could take. Putting an Inspected by # on the TSA inspection notice. That number would be tracked by TSA for issues. Of course Inspection is a misnomer for SEARCH. TSA can't even be honest about what they are doing.

BSBD

This is absolutely unbelievable. You're saying:

1. There is no security whatsoever for checked luggage.
2. That unknown actors can freely access the bags, with no monitoring, after they are surrendered by the passenger.
3. That these unknown actors can impersonate TSA when they do this.
4. That TSA has no way of preventing this, or even knowing that it occurs for specific bags, so it's up to the passenger to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that it wasn't an unknown TSA impersonator who accessed the passenger's bag after it was surrendered to TSA.

I am writing my Congressional representative regarding this serious security failure, and will refer her office to this thread. I strongly suggest others do the same.

petaluma1

Excellent suggestion. ^^

Boggie Dog

The one significant point that is missed is the fact that TSA's refusal to screen airport workers on any kind of regular basis creates an environment where TSA /airport employees can desecrate cremains or even place an explosive object in checked baggage and no one would ever be able to discover exactly who or when such act took place.

Passengers are prohibited from bringing in harmless water but airport workers, including a disgruntled TSA screener, could be bringing in any manner of contraband completely unknown to TSA.

chollie

TSA obviously teaches its screeners that it is OK to remove LGAs from ziplock bags, take off the caps, and toss the open containers back into the pax's luggage. It happens all the time, so we know it is an accepted TSA practice.

Someone tell me why TSA would think that cremains should be handled any differently than any other container: open it, look inside, and toss it back in the bag still open.

BSBD, I wrote both my representatives this morning, referencing this thread and my concerns about the wide open access to my luggage after TSA has cut my locks off. I'm also concerned about the free access to the 'love notes'. TSA is responsible for airport security. They aren't through with me until the plane has actually taken off, and they can still call ahead and have someone waiting to frisk me and rifle my luggage on arrival. TSA should be held equally accountable for my luggage from the time I hand it over to the time it enters the baggage hold.

TWA884

Per the earlier reminder, off-topic posts which have nothing to do with traveling with cremation ashes have been deleted.

Repeat violators will have their posting privileges suspended without further warning.

TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator