gsoltso

Nice of you to simply default to personal attack in a civilized conversation. I am giving folks the published information on cremains, so they can be aware - and use the organizations published information in any claim of incorrect screening.

gsoltso

I don't necessarily think that they are disinterested, I think they are simply doing basic numbers comparisons - like senior leadership at most locations do. They are primarily focused on the numbers, and even if we take every single unsubstantiated report in social media for this week, they would be a miniscule number in comparison to the overall numbers of the flying public. The majority of passengers come through and have a neutral experience - they have no particular good or bad parts. A small percentage have good experiences, and an even smaller percent have bad experiences. The over-arching concern for TSA HQ, is to prevent planes from going down - and by any measurable statistic, they have done just that for 15+ years.

I would love to see a citizens group that works with TSA (similar to the groups we work with for people with disabilities) to provide insight and brain storm suggestions for the organization. I would also love to see TSA HQ possibly through social media, engage the public at large, to gain even more insight from other focus groups - parents with young children, families with elderly members that need more assistance getting through, essentially any group that is not 18-50 male/female and traveling on business. Once we engage those folks, we can being to take their suggestions and input into account for future policy planning. To some extent, TSA does this, but not in the same way I think you or I would like to see.

I am not necessarily in favor of removing the investigative process from TSA, but I would like to see more transparency in the process, and more released information on the results - again, I am not privy to all the information involved in these situations, so my opinions may change based upon new information.

jkhuggins

The pedant in me must point out that correlation is not the same as causation. Given how extremely rare malicious incidents aboard commercial aircraft are, I'm not sure there is public evidence to justify a conclusion that TSA has directly prevented planes from going down. Simply counting the lack of incidents over the last 15+ years isn't evidence.

TSA has groups that solicit input on how to screen people with disabilities, and yet we continue to read verified reports regarding how people with disabilities are mistreated at TSA checkpoints. How would your proposed citizens group be any better?

Engaging the public requires actually listening and responding to the public's concerns. TSA's social media response these days seems to be limited to regurgitating approved boilerplate messages.

Boggie Dog

The percentage of travelers that have bad TSA experience appears to be more than just a small number. And small numbers sure seem to concern TSA, just look at all the shoes that get removed due to one failed attempt of a shoe bomb in another country. And look how TSA harps on the guns and stuff found each week, just a fraction of 1% of all passengers that are screened each day. And TSA doesn't keep planes from going down. Locked cockpit doors do that. Toss in the repeated testing across the country of TSA screeners showing a high failure rate of detecting target items and I think claiming that TSA is responsible for preventing planes going down is laughable.

TSA partnering with disability groups hasn't really worked out so well for people in those groups. The same abuses still occur.

The public, in my opinion, does not trust TSA to conduct an investigation of its workers that is not biased against travelers. Verified reports of complaints being thrown away, too many times of "policy was followed", lying under oath during a court trial, and other such abuses removes TSA and its employees from the credible witness list. Simply put, TSA cannot be trusted on any matter.

I recognize that you will disagree with my beliefs. So be it but unless someone within TSA takes up the gauntlet of bringing some real change to the organization these discussions will continue and TSA workers will find their jobs more difficult each day.

petaluma1

Perhaps a simple solution to checked baggage rape would be for the TSA notice to require a legible signature and time stamp. That way, if TSA truly were interested in making sure that their screeners return luggage the way they found it, CCTV coverage of the baggage screening could be reviewed down to the specific screener.

Seems to be a simple solution. However.....

Boggie Dog

This is about more than just checked baggage and in particular about TSA's handling of cremains.

I don't know if the screeners act out of ignorance or what but if a traveler tells the screener that they are handling cremains I would expect the utmost care on the part of the screener. I don't think I would ever check cremains and if TSA cannot screen cremains without opening the urn then that fact should be made public. There is no excuse for an urn to go missing whether it is by the hands of a TSA screener or an airline baggage handler. That is just flat out unacceptable.

Clothing and other personal items can be replaced but not the remains of a loved one. Any TSA or airline employee who is found to have been part of mishandling cremains should be prosecuted.

gsoltso

I will grant you that the logic is not completely sound, but the "15+ years with no major incidents at US originating airports" is the one thing I hear the most - and not just from TSA.

I do not know whether the results would be better, worse, or the same - however, I would prefer that we as an organization continue to reach out to the public in different ways. I may not be happy with what HQ takes away from these meetings/information sharing groups, but I would rather that we continue to listen and try to make a difference in how we do things for all people, than not listen to any of them.

The TSA social media sites are pretty specific in scope

1. TSA Instagram -> Wow! Look at this crazy stuff they find!
2. @ASKTSA -> Specific answers for specific questions that they are able to give out (based upon SSI regs), and a handful of basic responses for things that go outside of that lane
3. The Blog -> Weekly finds, basic informational posts about our folks and programs, direct address on a handful of hot topics

None of those have dedicated PR staff that are in place to do more than the basic answers - for the most part. Combine that with SSI regs, and you have a situation where it may seem like they are just brushing people off, when they are simply limited in what they can respond with.

I would love to see our social media group move more into an engage and communicate type of department, but that would be a big time shift for any governmental group. I can always hope, but I am a front line Joe, not a PR guru guy, so what do I know?

Statistically speaking, I would argue that bad experiences are a tiny part of what happens every day. That being said, no bad experience because of TSOs doing the wrong thing are acceptable.

I am not so certain. The process in place now, is much more streamlined and there are more options for folks with challenges than there used to be - even if the challenge is simply trying to work through a checkpoint with a small child. I think that working with these groups has allowed TSA to tailor screening better with regards to those groups. Like anything, it is not perfect, but it is tons better than it used to be. Again, any bad experience because a TSO does the wrong things is unacceptable.

I would not say that we necessarily disagree on all of our beliefs. If TSA is going to be responsible for screening at the airports (and/or other locations), we can both agree that we want TSA to be a high-functioning security group that does a good job at what they are assigned to do. Right? I rather think that where we differ is the application of that process, not the overall goal - and in some cases, we do not disagree at all. You want TSA to take any complaint it receives seriously - so do I. You want TSA to address TSOs that are outside the SOP properly - so do I.

FliesWay2Much

The simple answer is that there is no accountability at any level of the TSA -- period. The most egregious offenses against the citizenry (dead or alive) result in "reminders" or "retraining."

What is fundamentally different between mishandling cremains and descetrating a grave in a cemetery? In my home Commonwealth, it's a felony.

If you're a TSA clerk, it's a "reminder."

The ultimate lack of accountability is "the screener has the final say." Using that lack of accountability, any of us could be a screening clerk without ever opening a book at the "academy."

On this obfuscating point, the FAA, NTSB and the skills of the air and ground crews have orders of magnitude more to do with "preventing planes from going down" than anyone will ever have in the TSA -- sorry.

Boggie Dog

in reference to the highlighted text:

So more streamlined screening options means grabbing young mama by the crotch if she has a 6 oz bottle of milk for her baby. See the problem?

petaluma1

Why don't you ask the LGBT community how that has worked out for them, as well as black women with different hair textures/styles. TSA seems to have a habit of asking groups or individuals to work with them to make things easier (Jennifer Williamson comes to mind) and then doing absolutely nothing.

Speaking of Jennifer Williamson, this from her FB page dated April 11:

For those who might have forgot, her son was the young boy who was sexually assaulted repeatedly by a TSA screener, egged on by his supervisor, because he left his computer in his carry on.

jkhuggins

Except that you and I both know that it can be different. We were both around during the early days of the TSA Blog, when official representatives of TSA (including yourself and Bob) would directly respond to user comments to posts within the posts themselves, leading to more comments, leading to more responses, and so on. The responses were direct, responsive, and remarkably free of administratively-approved boilerplate.

And then a change in leadership happened, and suddenly the blog became nothing more than a place for extended press releases from TSA, and ranting responses from travelers in the comments.

This situation with cremains (see, trying desperately to bring it back on topic, mods ) is just another example. TSA folks say "treating cremains with disrespect is against our policy". And when passengers say "well, why does it happen?", TSA folks respond by saying "treating cremains with disrespect is against our policy". And when passengers say "what are you going to do about it?", TSA folks respond by saying "treating cremains with disrespect is against our policy".

An honest dialog about the issue (or any issue) can't happen if TSA's representatives aren't allowed to say anything that hasn't been approved by The Powers That Be. What we have now is a mutual exchange of canned responses --- about as effective as putting Siri, Alexa, and Google Home into the same room ...

Loren Pechtel

Seconded. Other than the retaliatory gropes I think most TSA issues are simple stupidity.

And how does one instantly recognize them anyway? My mother's wishes were cremation & the ashes scattered--I didn't pay extra for a fancy container, I got a cardboard box with the paperwork attached. Show me another sans paperwork and I likely wouldn't recognize what it was.

Agreed.

Isn't that only an issue for audio recordings? Isn't video without audio safe everywhere?

The problem is the camera wouldn't be likely to record what you need to see.

Requiring it wouldn't necessarily make it happen.

I do think video of anyplace the TSA opens bags should be required, and from two cameras fairly widely spaced so they won't end up with just a picture of the guy's back. Print an ID number in a few places on their uniform that's big enough the camera will see it.

petaluma1

Hence the "However......"

WillCAD

I would expect certain types of containers - the more obvious urns - to be easily recognizable just from their many appearances in movies and TV shows. A sealed urn with a lid, particularly if it has the deceased person's name emblazoned on it, should be pretty darned obvious even to a TSO.

Unless it's labeled "human remains", I probably wouldn't recognize the cardboard box as a cremains receptacle, either.

Boggie Dog

I can't believe that this topic isn't well covered during TSA training. I'm more inclined to think the problem revolves around the unprofesisonalism of TSA employees.