They Did It Again -- TSA desecrated His Mom's Ashes
Jul 9, 2017, 8:38 am
#46
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I will have to take your word for it that you believe that TSOs are not supposed to open cremains. I'm an ordinary citizen and I have no idea what TSOs SSI instructions about cremains actually are. I note that you say the rule saying cremains are not to be open is a published rule. It's pretty clear from TSOs actions that the unpublished SSI SOP says something else.
Other TSOs obviously disagree with your interpretation of the SSI SOP, because they do open cremains regularly, in both baggage and at the checkpoint. Surely there aren't that many TSOs willing to violate the rules, especially when other TSOs, LTSOs and STOs in the vicinity are watching and unlikely to watch a rules violation without saying something, right? Respectfully, perhaps you are the one with a 'rogue' interpretation of the rules and that's why there has been confusion surrounding some of the things you post here that conflict with what we actually witness every day. As an ordinary citizen, I have no idea who is 'wrong' or 'right' according to the rules, because the rules are the unpublished screener's final say.
That part of the process - screeners having the 'final say' on what actually happens with cremains - has been going on for years and clearly still is happening, in spite of some folks claiming there is no 'verifiable evidence'. It is obvious that opening and playing with cremains and tossing unopened containers back into checked luggage is an acceptable technique because it keeps happening and no LTSOs or STSOs have a problem with it.
That's an awful lot of people - TSOs, LTSOs and STSOs - who have received the same training and 'academy' training as you who interpret the rules a completely different way.
Other TSOs obviously disagree with your interpretation of the SSI SOP, because they do open cremains regularly, in both baggage and at the checkpoint. Surely there aren't that many TSOs willing to violate the rules, especially when other TSOs, LTSOs and STOs in the vicinity are watching and unlikely to watch a rules violation without saying something, right? Respectfully, perhaps you are the one with a 'rogue' interpretation of the rules and that's why there has been confusion surrounding some of the things you post here that conflict with what we actually witness every day. As an ordinary citizen, I have no idea who is 'wrong' or 'right' according to the rules, because the rules are the unpublished screener's final say.
That part of the process - screeners having the 'final say' on what actually happens with cremains - has been going on for years and clearly still is happening, in spite of some folks claiming there is no 'verifiable evidence'. It is obvious that opening and playing with cremains and tossing unopened containers back into checked luggage is an acceptable technique because it keeps happening and no LTSOs or STSOs have a problem with it.
That's an awful lot of people - TSOs, LTSOs and STSOs - who have received the same training and 'academy' training as you who interpret the rules a completely different way.
Last edited by chollie; Jul 9, 2017 at 10:20 am
Jul 9, 2017, 8:45 am
#47
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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I will venture that this was a swipe at me, so I will address it. I did not say to "only accept information from TSA sources", in any way shape or form. What I continue to say is ask for verifiable information, and proof - I also indicate that random social media posts, tweets and commentary from unverified/unidentified sources are not a good source of factual information (this is a good policy in all things, instead of assuming/guessing/believing everything that you read without backstopping it). Of course, I am wary of all news sources nowadays, none of them publish fact oriented information, therefore, they are all suspect.
Back on topic - TSOs are not supposed to open cremains, if they do, they are going against published policy and should be addressed properly by their leadership. The process has not changed for years, and the only change I have actually noticed is the commentary about using temporary containers of less dense material for transport.
Back on topic - TSOs are not supposed to open cremains, if they do, they are going against published policy and should be addressed properly by their leadership. The process has not changed for years, and the only change I have actually noticed is the commentary about using temporary containers of less dense material for transport.
Jul 9, 2017, 8:47 am
#48
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I will take your word for it that TSOs are not supposed to open cremains. I'm an ordinary citizen and I have no idea what TSOs SSI instructions about cremains actually are, and other TSOs obviously disagree with your interpretation of the SSI SOP, because they do open cremains, in both baggage and at the checkpoint. Perhaps you are the one with a 'rogue' interpretation of the rules and that's why there has been confusion surrounding some of the things you post here that conflict with what we actually witness every day. As an ordinary citizen, I have no idea who is 'wrong' or 'right' according to the rules, because the rules are the unpublished screener's final say.
That part of the process - screeners having the 'final say' on what actually happens with cremains - has been going on for years and clearly still is happening, in spite of some folks claiming there is no 'verifiable evidence'. It is obvious that opening and playing with cremains and tossing unopened containers back into checked luggage is an acceptable technique because it keeps happening and no LTSOs or STSOs have a problem with it.
That's an awful lot of people - TSOs, LTSOs and STSOs - who have received the same training and 'academy' training as you who interpret the rules a completely different way.
That part of the process - screeners having the 'final say' on what actually happens with cremains - has been going on for years and clearly still is happening, in spite of some folks claiming there is no 'verifiable evidence'. It is obvious that opening and playing with cremains and tossing unopened containers back into checked luggage is an acceptable technique because it keeps happening and no LTSOs or STSOs have a problem with it.
That's an awful lot of people - TSOs, LTSOs and STSOs - who have received the same training and 'academy' training as you who interpret the rules a completely different way.
Jul 9, 2017, 9:29 am
#49
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Yes.
If an FSD announced to his crew that if there was a single documented instance of cremains being opened, there would be no annual bonuses for any TSOs present at the time or for the LTSO and STSO of the errant TSO, no one would be opening cremains anymore at that airport.
If Pesky applied the same rule to his FSDs: a single verified instance of cremains being opened means the FSD loses his annual bonus, there would be no more TSOs opening cremains.
If an FSD announced to his crew that if there was a single documented instance of cremains being opened, there would be no annual bonuses for any TSOs present at the time or for the LTSO and STSO of the errant TSO, no one would be opening cremains anymore at that airport.
If Pesky applied the same rule to his FSDs: a single verified instance of cremains being opened means the FSD loses his annual bonus, there would be no more TSOs opening cremains.
Jul 9, 2017, 5:54 pm
#50
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I will venture that this was a swipe at me, so I will address it. I did not say to "only accept information from TSA sources", in any way shape or form. What I continue to say is ask for verifiable information, and proof - I also indicate that random social media posts, tweets and commentary from unverified/unidentified sources are not a good source of factual information (this is a good policy in all things, instead of assuming/guessing/believing everything that you read without backstopping it). Of course, I am wary of all news sources nowadays, none of them publish fact oriented information, therefore, they are all suspect.
Jul 9, 2017, 11:04 pm
#51
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I will venture that this was a swipe at me, so I will address it. I did not say to "only accept information from TSA sources", in any way shape or form. What I continue to say is ask for verifiable information, and proof - I also indicate that random social media posts, tweets and commentary from unverified/unidentified sources are not a good source of factual information (this is a good policy in all things, instead of assuming/guessing/believing everything that you read without backstopping it). Of course, I am wary of all news sources nowadays, none of them publish fact oriented information, therefore, they are all suspect.
That, unfortunately, is not what we have.
We have, on one hand, the TSA website which is obscure, self-contradictory, silent on various key questions, and most importantly, is inconsistent with what we experience at the checkpoint. Also in this corner we have one FTer who represents himself as a TSA employee who says we should trust him and trust the website that the TSA won't open cremains. On the other hand, we have numerous reports via social media that TSA have opened (and spilled, or dumped, or destroyed, or otherwise interfered with) cremains. Each one may be, on its own, "unverified", but when there are so many, it's hard to believe it's some vast conspiracy of lies.
So who are you going to believe?
Jul 10, 2017, 5:45 am
#52
Join Date: Nov 2010
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If we had, on the one hand, a government sponsored website with clear, unambiguous rules which reliably matched our own first-hand experiences at the checkpoint, and on the other hand, one or two statements from social media which contradicted the website, I would agree with you that such "random social media posts, tweets and commentary from unverified/unidentified sources are not a good source of factual information."
That, unfortunately, is not what we have.
We have, on one hand, the TSA website which is obscure, self-contradictory, silent on various key questions, and most importantly, is inconsistent with what we experience at the checkpoint. Also in this corner we have one FTer who represents himself as a TSA employee who says we should trust him and trust the website that the TSA won't open cremains. On the other hand, we have numerous reports via social media that TSA have opened (and spilled, or dumped, or destroyed, or otherwise interfered with) cremains. Each one may be, on its own, "unverified", but when there are so many, it's hard to believe it's some vast conspiracy of lies.
So who are you going to believe?
That, unfortunately, is not what we have.
We have, on one hand, the TSA website which is obscure, self-contradictory, silent on various key questions, and most importantly, is inconsistent with what we experience at the checkpoint. Also in this corner we have one FTer who represents himself as a TSA employee who says we should trust him and trust the website that the TSA won't open cremains. On the other hand, we have numerous reports via social media that TSA have opened (and spilled, or dumped, or destroyed, or otherwise interfered with) cremains. Each one may be, on its own, "unverified", but when there are so many, it's hard to believe it's some vast conspiracy of lies.
So who are you going to believe?
I actually believe <redacted> when he says that TSA's official published policy is that cremains are not to be opened. Whether or not there is an unpublished, SSI policy in the SSI SOP manual is another matter, however I tend to doubt that there is any explicit instruction in the manual to open containers that contain cremains.
However, with the multiple reports of TSA opening, damaging, or destroying cremains, I also believe that TSA is opening, damaging, or destroying cremains.
This contradiction can be easily explained by one of two possibilities (and I believe that both happen on a regular basis:
* Some TSOs don't know or don't care what the cremains policy is
* Some TSOs do not recognize cremains containers until they're opened and is simply treating them like any other container in checked bags that is flagged for hand inspection by the automated screening equipment
There are two axioms that one must keep in mind when discussing anything done by rank-and-file TSOs around the country:
1) Never attribute to malice that which can be as easily attributed to stupidity
2) All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually correct
We have spent years on this site vilifying TSA for low standards in hiring and training, poor management, and general stupidity of their workforce. Yet with this case, many are automatically attributing the routine desecration of human remains to malice, when it's obvious to me that most of it (perhaps not all, but most) is due to plain ignorance.
Cremation isn't exactly rare, but the vast majority of people in the US opt for burial, making it wholely possible for a person to go through life without encountering a single container of cremains, and not instantly recognizing one when they encounter it on the job. Thus, a TSO may not instantly recognize such a container until after they've erroneously opened it. That can be called an honest mistake. Though, of course, that overlooks the stupidity of the general policy to begin with - "We can't see inside this object. It might be a bomb! LET'S OPEN IT UP WITH OUR BARE HANDS AND LOOK INSIDE!" But that stupidity is on upper management, not the individual TSO.
What the TSO does once the container is opened, however, determines whether or not they veer into stoopid territory. Doing anything other than carefully re-sealing the container and replacing it in the luggage, then doing an ETD swab on their gloved hands, indicates a swerve, and putting the container away poorly sealed, or disturbing the contents in any way (including testing or stirring), is a major jerk of the wheel. If they did their jobs right - they way they were ostensibly trained to do them at the vaunted academy - then the traveler would never know that the container had been opened.
Last edited by TWA884; Jul 11, 2017 at 12:03 pm Reason: Privacy
Jul 10, 2017, 6:17 am
#53
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That's the root of the problem - TSA handles cremains just like a container of lotion or salsa. They open them, they stick their fingers in them, and then they toss them back in a checked bag unsealed - over and over again. There is no excuse for handling ANY container or any pax's property that way.
If all containers requiring inspection were handled with care, even perhaps opened and strip tested and carefully resealed, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's an extension of TSO general training - cut locks, toss bags, disrespect and manhandle pax belongings - unless you are planning on taking them home, of course.
If all containers requiring inspection were handled with care, even perhaps opened and strip tested and carefully resealed, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's an extension of TSO general training - cut locks, toss bags, disrespect and manhandle pax belongings - unless you are planning on taking them home, of course.
Jul 10, 2017, 6:26 am
#54
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
There are two axioms that one must keep in mind when discussing anything done by rank-and-file TSOs around the country:
1) Never attribute to malice that which can be as easily attributed to stupidity
2) All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually correct
We have spent years on this site vilifying TSA for low standards in hiring and training, poor management, and general stupidity of their workforce. Yet with this case, many are automatically attributing the routine desecration of human remains to malice, when it's obvious to me that most of it (perhaps not all, but most) is due to plain ignorance.
Cremation isn't exactly rare, but the vast majority of people in the US opt for burial, making it wholely possible for a person to go through life without encountering a single container of cremains, and not instantly recognizing one when they encounter it on the job. Thus, a TSO may not instantly recognize such a container until after they've erroneously opened it. That can be called an honest mistake. Though, of course, that overlooks the stupidity of the general policy to begin with - "We can't see inside this object. It might be a bomb! LET'S OPEN IT UP WITH OUR BARE HANDS AND LOOK INSIDE!" But that stupidity is on upper management, not the individual TSO.
What the TSO does once the container is opened, however, determines whether or not they veer into stoopid territory. Doing anything other than carefully re-sealing the container and replacing it in the luggage, then doing an ETD swab on their gloved hands, indicates a swerve, and putting the container away poorly sealed, or disturbing the contents in any way (including testing or stirring), is a major jerk of the wheel. If they did their jobs right - they way they were ostensibly trained to do them at the vaunted academy - then the traveler would never know that the container had been opened.
TSA claims that the CT scanners it wants to introduce to checkpoints will be able to detect even liquid explosives. TSA uses larger versions of CT scanners for screening baggage. If these CT scanners are so fantastic, why is luggage still being opened and rifled through? Won't the same thing be happening at checkpoints?
Jul 10, 2017, 6:32 am
#55
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
That's the root of the problem - TSA handles cremains just like a container of lotion or salsa. They open them, they stick their fingers in them, and then they toss them back in a checked bag unsealed - over and over again. There is no excuse for handling ANY container or any pax's property that way.
If all containers requiring inspection were handled with care, even perhaps opened and strip tested and carefully resealed, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's an extension of TSO general training - cut locks, toss bags, disrespect and manhandle pax belongings - unless you are planning on taking them home, of course.
If all containers requiring inspection were handled with care, even perhaps opened and strip tested and carefully resealed, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's an extension of TSO general training - cut locks, toss bags, disrespect and manhandle pax belongings - unless you are planning on taking them home, of course.
"We're sorry for any frustration, xxxxx. Our 'officers' are trained to put check bags back they way they were presented to them."
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&...ained&src=typd
Jul 10, 2017, 6:55 am
#56
Join Date: Dec 2009
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When the TSOs that do all these things we hate that violate the published SOP it's not directly a vengeful act of malice. But it is not just ignorance either. When I'm provided with information on how to do a task, put through training on how to do that task and given updated training on new policies but fail to do such a task properly it's no longer ignorance. When it's allowed to be repeated it becomes malicious.
...There are two axioms that one must keep in mind when discussing anything done by rank-and-file TSOs around the country:
1) Never attribute to malice that which can be as easily attributed to stupidity
2) All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually correct
We have spent years on this site vilifying TSA for low standards in hiring and training, poor management, and general stupidity of their workforce. Yet with this case, many are automatically attributing the routine desecration of human remains to malice, when it's obvious to me that most of it (perhaps not all, but most) is due to plain ignorance.
1) Never attribute to malice that which can be as easily attributed to stupidity
2) All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually correct
We have spent years on this site vilifying TSA for low standards in hiring and training, poor management, and general stupidity of their workforce. Yet with this case, many are automatically attributing the routine desecration of human remains to malice, when it's obvious to me that most of it (perhaps not all, but most) is due to plain ignorance.
Jul 10, 2017, 7:16 am
#57
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
If we had, on the one hand, a government sponsored website with clear, unambiguous rules which reliably matched our own first-hand experiences at the checkpoint, and on the other hand, one or two statements from social media which contradicted the website, I would agree with you that such "random social media posts, tweets and commentary from unverified/unidentified sources are not a good source of factual information."
That, unfortunately, is not what we have.
We have, on one hand, the TSA website which is obscure, self-contradictory, silent on various key questions, and most importantly, is inconsistent with what we experience at the checkpoint. Also in this corner we have one FTer who represents himself as a TSA employee who says we should trust him and trust the website that the TSA won't open cremains. On the other hand, we have numerous reports via social media that TSA have opened (and spilled, or dumped, or destroyed, or otherwise interfered with) cremains. Each one may be, on its own, "unverified", but when there are so many, it's hard to believe it's some vast conspiracy of lies.
So who are you going to believe?
That, unfortunately, is not what we have.
We have, on one hand, the TSA website which is obscure, self-contradictory, silent on various key questions, and most importantly, is inconsistent with what we experience at the checkpoint. Also in this corner we have one FTer who represents himself as a TSA employee who says we should trust him and trust the website that the TSA won't open cremains. On the other hand, we have numerous reports via social media that TSA have opened (and spilled, or dumped, or destroyed, or otherwise interfered with) cremains. Each one may be, on its own, "unverified", but when there are so many, it's hard to believe it's some vast conspiracy of lies.
So who are you going to believe?
I am simply not willing to base my decisions or loft accusations against someone based upon unnamed/unverified sources.
I kinda think you're both right.
I actually believe <redacted> when he says that TSA's official published policy is that cremains are not to be opened. Whether or not there is an unpublished, SSI policy in the SSI SOP manual is another matter, however I tend to doubt that there is any explicit instruction in the manual to open containers that contain cremains.
However, with the multiple reports of TSA opening, damaging, or destroying cremains, I also believe that TSA is opening, damaging, or destroying cremains.
This contradiction can be easily explained by one of two possibilities (and I believe that both happen on a regular basis:
* Some TSOs don't know or don't care what the cremains policy is
* Some TSOs do not recognize cremains containers until they're opened and is simply treating them like any other container in checked bags that is flagged for hand inspection by the automated screening equipment
There are two axioms that one must keep in mind when discussing anything done by rank-and-file TSOs around the country:
1) Never attribute to malice that which can be as easily attributed to stupidity
2) All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually correct
We have spent years on this site vilifying TSA for low standards in hiring and training, poor management, and general stupidity of their workforce. Yet with this case, many are automatically attributing the routine desecration of human remains to malice, when it's obvious to me that most of it (perhaps not all, but most) is due to plain ignorance.
Cremation isn't exactly rare, but the vast majority of people in the US opt for burial, making it wholely possible for a person to go through life without encountering a single container of cremains, and not instantly recognizing one when they encounter it on the job. Thus, a TSO may not instantly recognize such a container until after they've erroneously opened it. That can be called an honest mistake. Though, of course, that overlooks the stupidity of the general policy to begin with - "We can't see inside this object. It might be a bomb! LET'S OPEN IT UP WITH OUR BARE HANDS AND LOOK INSIDE!" But that stupidity is on upper management, not the individual TSO.
What the TSO does once the container is opened, however, determines whether or not they veer into stoopid territory. Doing anything other than carefully re-sealing the container and replacing it in the luggage, then doing an ETD swab on their gloved hands, indicates a swerve, and putting the container away poorly sealed, or disturbing the contents in any way (including testing or stirring), is a major jerk of the wheel. If they did their jobs right - they way they were ostensibly trained to do them at the vaunted academy - then the traveler would never know that the container had been opened.
I actually believe <redacted> when he says that TSA's official published policy is that cremains are not to be opened. Whether or not there is an unpublished, SSI policy in the SSI SOP manual is another matter, however I tend to doubt that there is any explicit instruction in the manual to open containers that contain cremains.
However, with the multiple reports of TSA opening, damaging, or destroying cremains, I also believe that TSA is opening, damaging, or destroying cremains.
This contradiction can be easily explained by one of two possibilities (and I believe that both happen on a regular basis:
* Some TSOs don't know or don't care what the cremains policy is
* Some TSOs do not recognize cremains containers until they're opened and is simply treating them like any other container in checked bags that is flagged for hand inspection by the automated screening equipment
There are two axioms that one must keep in mind when discussing anything done by rank-and-file TSOs around the country:
1) Never attribute to malice that which can be as easily attributed to stupidity
2) All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually correct
We have spent years on this site vilifying TSA for low standards in hiring and training, poor management, and general stupidity of their workforce. Yet with this case, many are automatically attributing the routine desecration of human remains to malice, when it's obvious to me that most of it (perhaps not all, but most) is due to plain ignorance.
Cremation isn't exactly rare, but the vast majority of people in the US opt for burial, making it wholely possible for a person to go through life without encountering a single container of cremains, and not instantly recognizing one when they encounter it on the job. Thus, a TSO may not instantly recognize such a container until after they've erroneously opened it. That can be called an honest mistake. Though, of course, that overlooks the stupidity of the general policy to begin with - "We can't see inside this object. It might be a bomb! LET'S OPEN IT UP WITH OUR BARE HANDS AND LOOK INSIDE!" But that stupidity is on upper management, not the individual TSO.
What the TSO does once the container is opened, however, determines whether or not they veer into stoopid territory. Doing anything other than carefully re-sealing the container and replacing it in the luggage, then doing an ETD swab on their gloved hands, indicates a swerve, and putting the container away poorly sealed, or disturbing the contents in any way (including testing or stirring), is a major jerk of the wheel. If they did their jobs right - they way they were ostensibly trained to do them at the vaunted academy - then the traveler would never know that the container had been opened.
I have never said these things didn't happen, as a matter of fact, I have gone out of my way to not take a stance on many things because there is no proof either way. I try my best to post the organizational info that I can, so folks have the chance to see where to look, and if they have a valid claim, where to find information to use in that claim. I want TSA to fix things that are wrong, and believe it or not, a cornerstone of that process is the actual complaint system. I understand that the system is not as all-encompassing as we would like, but it is the tool I can point folks to right now.
I would like to state again, I am not disbelieving of these situations, just unwilling to take random comments from social media with no support as gospel.
Last edited by TWA884; Jul 11, 2017 at 12:06 pm Reason: Conform to moderator's edit of quoted post
Jul 10, 2017, 7:22 am
#58
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
There are several "spy" cameras you can get to place in your luggage, they range from about $10-$25000 (depending upon you price range). There is one pesky problem about spy cameras, as we are seeing with some of the undercover filming done with investigative journalists - each location has their own laws about surreptitious recording (sometimes called 2 party recording). I personally, would love to see a whole slew of these used to make certain that people are able to find out exactly what happened. It would give the individual a recourse if there is something that happened incorrectly - whether that is someone in the TSO ranks going outside of what they are supposed to do, or someone else doing the same.
Many of your points I can not argue. I agree that there is more information that (admittedly from a front line point of view) we could publish without there being damaging consequences - but I do not have all the information that the policy wonks in DC have, so my opinion may change based upon new information.
I am simply not willing to base my decisions or loft accusations against someone based upon unnamed/unverified sources.
^
I have never said these things didn't happen, as a matter of fact, I have gone out of my way to not take a stance on many things because there is no proof either way. I try my best to post the organizational info that I can, so folks have the chance to see where to look, and if they have a valid claim, where to find information to use in that claim. I want TSA to fix things that are wrong, and believe it or not, a cornerstone of that process is the actual complaint system. I understand that the system is not as all-encompassing as we would like, but it is the tool I can point folks to right now.
I would like to state again, I am not disbelieving of these situations, just unwilling to take random comments from social media with no support as gospel.
Many of your points I can not argue. I agree that there is more information that (admittedly from a front line point of view) we could publish without there being damaging consequences - but I do not have all the information that the policy wonks in DC have, so my opinion may change based upon new information.
I am simply not willing to base my decisions or loft accusations against someone based upon unnamed/unverified sources.
^
I have never said these things didn't happen, as a matter of fact, I have gone out of my way to not take a stance on many things because there is no proof either way. I try my best to post the organizational info that I can, so folks have the chance to see where to look, and if they have a valid claim, where to find information to use in that claim. I want TSA to fix things that are wrong, and believe it or not, a cornerstone of that process is the actual complaint system. I understand that the system is not as all-encompassing as we would like, but it is the tool I can point folks to right now.
I would like to state again, I am not disbelieving of these situations, just unwilling to take random comments from social media with no support as gospel.
Each one may be, on its own, "unverified", but when there are so many, it's hard to believe it's some vast conspiracy of lies.
Last edited by TWA884; Jul 11, 2017 at 12:07 pm Reason: Privacy
Jul 10, 2017, 7:44 am
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,079
When the TSOs that do all these things we hate that violate the published SOP it's not directly a vengeful act of malice. But it is not just ignorance either. When I'm provided with information on how to do a task, put through training on how to do that task and given updated training on new policies but fail to do such a task properly it's no longer ignorance. When it's allowed to be repeated it becomes malicious.
I don't need verified reports to realize that there are daily accounts of TSA screeners doing things that should not go unchallenged. It's a sorry state of affairs when TSA leadership stands idle while this is going on.
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Jul 10, 2017 at 8:42 am
Jul 10, 2017, 8:42 am
#60
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,079
There are several "spy" cameras you can get to place in your luggage, they range from about $10-$25000 (depending upon you price range). There is one pesky problem about spy cameras, as we are seeing with some of the undercover filming done with investigative journalists - each location has their own laws about surreptitious recording (sometimes called 2 party recording). I personally, would love to see a whole slew of these used to make certain that people are able to find out exactly what happened. It would give the individual a recourse if there is something that happened incorrectly - whether that is someone in the TSO ranks going outside of what they are supposed to do, or someone else doing the same.
Many of your points I can not argue. I agree that there is more information that (admittedly from a front line point of view) we could publish without there being damaging consequences - but I do not have all the information that the policy wonks in DC have, so my opinion may change based upon new information.
I am simply not willing to base my decisions or loft accusations against someone based upon unnamed/unverified sources.
^
I have never said these things didn't happen, as a matter of fact, I have gone out of my way to not take a stance on many things because there is no proof either way. I try my best to post the organizational info that I can, so folks have the chance to see where to look, and if they have a valid claim, where to find information to use in that claim. I want TSA to fix things that are wrong, and believe it or not, a cornerstone of that process is the actual complaint system. I understand that the system is not as all-encompassing as we would like, but it is the tool I can point folks to right now.
I would like to state again, I am not disbelieving of these situations, just unwilling to take random comments from social media with no support as gospel.
Many of your points I can not argue. I agree that there is more information that (admittedly from a front line point of view) we could publish without there being damaging consequences - but I do not have all the information that the policy wonks in DC have, so my opinion may change based upon new information.
I am simply not willing to base my decisions or loft accusations against someone based upon unnamed/unverified sources.
^
I have never said these things didn't happen, as a matter of fact, I have gone out of my way to not take a stance on many things because there is no proof either way. I try my best to post the organizational info that I can, so folks have the chance to see where to look, and if they have a valid claim, where to find information to use in that claim. I want TSA to fix things that are wrong, and believe it or not, a cornerstone of that process is the actual complaint system. I understand that the system is not as all-encompassing as we would like, but it is the tool I can point folks to right now.
I would like to state again, I am not disbelieving of these situations, just unwilling to take random comments from social media with no support as gospel.
TSA investigating its own complaints is a failed system from the start.
TSA would do itself a favor by standing up a citizens group to mediate complaints. If that is not workable then Justice should be tasked with overseeing all TSA complaints.
