Transliteration and translation. Two names on foreign passport
Jul 31, 2014, 9:18 am
#1
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Transliteration and translation. Two names on foreign passport
I’ve got a potentially unusual question for the collective. I’ve gone through a couple of posts that contain information about people having a mismatched name in various documentations (ticket/passport etc) due to bad transliterations, but I haven’t been able to find anything regarding my case. Apologies if I missed it.
My question is: Does anyone have a passport that lists two versions of their name separated with the conjunction ‘OR’ ?
I’ve got the right to get my Greek passport re-issued listing both a transliterated as well as a translated version of my first names but I’m a bit concerned that when asked by airlines, government departments, etc, to fill out forms requiring “name as written on the passport” I’d have to put both versions in. The whole point of having both names is to break away from the former version (the transliterated version) and get the latter one on my passport (which is the name that I’ve always been known by).
Does anyone have any experience of having this done? Essentially it would look something like
Forename: DEINIOL OR DANIEL
Surname: STOLTS OR STOLZ
So if you have this in your passport, and you book tickets under the name Daniel Stolz that should be OK, and not have to put the whole thing in. But.. is it? Also, when it comes down to US Visas or any other sort of visas, would you have to declare them both? I've been told that the whole idea behind having both versions is that you can actually choose which one you use.
Any advice welcome! Feel free to move this to another section if this isn’t the right one.
My question is: Does anyone have a passport that lists two versions of their name separated with the conjunction ‘OR’ ?
I’ve got the right to get my Greek passport re-issued listing both a transliterated as well as a translated version of my first names but I’m a bit concerned that when asked by airlines, government departments, etc, to fill out forms requiring “name as written on the passport” I’d have to put both versions in. The whole point of having both names is to break away from the former version (the transliterated version) and get the latter one on my passport (which is the name that I’ve always been known by).
Does anyone have any experience of having this done? Essentially it would look something like
Forename: DEINIOL OR DANIEL
Surname: STOLTS OR STOLZ
So if you have this in your passport, and you book tickets under the name Daniel Stolz that should be OK, and not have to put the whole thing in. But.. is it? Also, when it comes down to US Visas or any other sort of visas, would you have to declare them both? I've been told that the whole idea behind having both versions is that you can actually choose which one you use.
Any advice welcome! Feel free to move this to another section if this isn’t the right one.
Sep 4, 2014, 4:25 am
#2
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2
hey man , i am a also a Greek dual citizen and i had faced the same problem and i am visiting the US soon and i am concerned about the issue . I called the embassy earlier and they said its a new regulation that is implemented by the NPC in 2011 for dual citizens . nevertheless i i am confused when filling forms like visas and bank statements etc. since on of the names never referred to me in any means! if you had any updates in your case please advise . bellow is the link for the new regulation announcement.
http://www.passport.gov.gr/en/anounc...-in-latin.html
regards !
http://www.passport.gov.gr/en/anounc...-in-latin.html
regards !
Sep 4, 2014, 10:03 am
#3
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Well, how does this show up and get handled for the machine-readable zone that is on the bottom of the passport biodata page?
The scan of that drives what automatically comes up/populates fields for systems used by the airlines and border control authorities.
The scan of that drives what automatically comes up/populates fields for systems used by the airlines and border control authorities.
Mar 20, 2016, 6:46 am
#4
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Hey all - just to say that I have yet to bite the bullet and have my passport reissued with the 'OR' conjunction. I am yet to be convinced that this is going to solve my problems but I am desperate for anyone who has done this. I have no idea how the machine-readable strip is displayed in such cases, and unless you get one of these passports, there is no way to find out in advance.
I don't know if there is any other forum that I could go to, in order to tap into Greeks with a similar problem. In other countries (the UK for example) dual names are handled by way of an endorsement at the bottom, leaving the primary name fields as they were, and then adding a note saying that 'the holder is also known as X', which is a logical way of doing it. I wish the same was the case with Greek ID documents, but it's not...
I don't know if there is any other forum that I could go to, in order to tap into Greeks with a similar problem. In other countries (the UK for example) dual names are handled by way of an endorsement at the bottom, leaving the primary name fields as they were, and then adding a note saying that 'the holder is also known as X', which is a logical way of doing it. I wish the same was the case with Greek ID documents, but it's not...
Mar 20, 2016, 7:52 am
#5
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Hey all - just to say that I have yet to bite the bullet and have my passport reissued with the 'OR' conjunction. I am yet to be convinced that this is going to solve my problems but I am desperate for anyone who has done this. I have no idea how the machine-readable strip is displayed in such cases, and unless you get one of these passports, there is no way to find out in advance.
I don't know if there is any other forum that I could go to, in order to tap into Greeks with a similar problem. In other countries (the UK for example) dual names are handled by way of an endorsement at the bottom, leaving the primary name fields as they were, and then adding a note saying that 'the holder is also known as X', which is a logical way of doing it. I wish the same was the case with Greek ID documents, but it's not...
I don't know if there is any other forum that I could go to, in order to tap into Greeks with a similar problem. In other countries (the UK for example) dual names are handled by way of an endorsement at the bottom, leaving the primary name fields as they were, and then adding a note saying that 'the holder is also known as X', which is a logical way of doing it. I wish the same was the case with Greek ID documents, but it's not...
If the "OR" appears in the Roman alphabet script for the name in the Roman alphabet line of the name, I would be surprised if it didn't also show up in the MRZ. But that will still mean that there will appear to be a name mismatch when swiping the MRZ to look for a passenger record; and it ay even mean that entering the passport details via the MRZ into a PNR would require a manual override to get checked in on ticketed PNRs.
Have you tried dealing with Greek consulates/embassies to see what they say about such situations?
Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 20, 2016 at 8:00 am
Mar 20, 2016, 6:15 pm
#6
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Thanks for the reply. I share your concerns about the discrepancy of what the MRZ shows,with the actual Name field(s), and whatever else is being held on other databases, including that of the airlines and the API system. To be frank, I wouldn't be surprised if the MRZ only listed one of the two names, but I have no way of corroborating that. I simply know no-one who has gone down that route, and I am unsure where/who to ask! Finding someone who has a passport listing two names would be a great start in ascertaining how the whole system works.
The Greek embassy in London (where I'm based) is notoriously unhelpful. They don't really want to be dealing with passports (they encourage citizens to go back to Greece to deal with renewals) and for the ones that they do actually deal with, they've put a notice on the website that even after several complaints, they will not be deviating from the legal requirement of using a transliteration, rather than a translation.
....
The Greek embassy in London (where I'm based) is notoriously unhelpful. They don't really want to be dealing with passports (they encourage citizens to go back to Greece to deal with renewals) and for the ones that they do actually deal with, they've put a notice on the website that even after several complaints, they will not be deviating from the legal requirement of using a transliteration, rather than a translation.
....
Apr 26, 2016, 6:12 am
#7
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2
hey guys i think there is a new update on this from Greece last week please check this :
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2016...and-passports/
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2016...and-passports/
May 15, 2018, 1:27 pm
#8
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 2
Transliteration and translation. Two names on foreign passport
Dears:
I got my Greek Passport for the first time today and in Latin name and surname have dual names separated by OR, does this will make any problem with banks, tickets, airport counters, ... Anyone has experience in this please? I would appreciate that.
I got my Greek Passport for the first time today and in Latin name and surname have dual names separated by OR, does this will make any problem with banks, tickets, airport counters, ... Anyone has experience in this please? I would appreciate that.
May 17, 2018, 6:11 am
#9
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 2
I’ve got a potentially unusual question for the collective. I’ve gone through a couple of posts that contain information about people having a mismatched name in various documentations (ticket/passport etc) due to bad transliterations, but I haven’t been able to find anything regarding my case. Apologies if I missed it.
My question is: Does anyone have a passport that lists two versions of their name separated with the conjunction ‘OR’ ?
I’ve got the right to get my Greek passport re-issued listing both a transliterated as well as a translated version of my first names but I’m a bit concerned that when asked by airlines, government departments, etc, to fill out forms requiring “name as written on the passport” I’d have to put both versions in. The whole point of having both names is to break away from the former version (the transliterated version) and get the latter one on my passport (which is the name that I’ve always been known by).
Does anyone have any experience of having this done? Essentially it would look something like
Forename: DEINIOL OR DANIEL
Surname: STOLTS OR STOLZ
So if you have this in your passport, and you book tickets under the name Daniel Stolz that should be OK, and not have to put the whole thing in. But.. is it? Also, when it comes down to US Visas or any other sort of visas, would you have to declare them both? I've been told that the whole idea behind having both versions is that you can actually choose which one you use.
Any advice welcome! Feel free to move this to another section if this isn’t the right one.
My question is: Does anyone have a passport that lists two versions of their name separated with the conjunction ‘OR’ ?
I’ve got the right to get my Greek passport re-issued listing both a transliterated as well as a translated version of my first names but I’m a bit concerned that when asked by airlines, government departments, etc, to fill out forms requiring “name as written on the passport” I’d have to put both versions in. The whole point of having both names is to break away from the former version (the transliterated version) and get the latter one on my passport (which is the name that I’ve always been known by).
Does anyone have any experience of having this done? Essentially it would look something like
Forename: DEINIOL OR DANIEL
Surname: STOLTS OR STOLZ
So if you have this in your passport, and you book tickets under the name Daniel Stolz that should be OK, and not have to put the whole thing in. But.. is it? Also, when it comes down to US Visas or any other sort of visas, would you have to declare them both? I've been told that the whole idea behind having both versions is that you can actually choose which one you use.
Any advice welcome! Feel free to move this to another section if this isn’t the right one.
I got my Greek Passport for the first time yesterday having the same problem as yours "OR" between my name and my surname, from your experience, have you faced any problems in airports with this issue or not? I would appreciate your answer instead of contacting Greek authorities and ask them about this issue. Thanks.
May 21, 2018, 5:50 am
#10
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 163
Anything out of the ordinary has the potential to cause problems. How likely you'll have problems will be directly proportional to how often the person deals with foreign/greek passports.
May 21, 2018, 8:35 am
#11
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
I believe that the passport design scheme has a field for AKAs - not necessarily in the strip or the first page, but possibly e.g. as an additional comment in the back of the passport, as well as in the RFID.
So I would suggest requesting that any plausible alternative ways of rendering your name be put there by your government, with your primary / preferred method being the one on the face, not something with "OR" in it
What if someone's name actually does have "or" in it? That means "gold" in French e.g., and other things in other languages; it's not impossible for it to actually be part of someone's name. (In fact, there's a famous example: Saint Jean «Bouche d'Or», who's referred to by George Brassens in his song Mourir pour des idées.)
Do you want to have to put the whole X or Y or Z thing wherever you have to write your legal name, because some country takes the position that that is your full legal name according to your passport?
tl;dr: Don't intermingle metadata with data. Get the aliases written on your passport explicitly.
So I would suggest requesting that any plausible alternative ways of rendering your name be put there by your government, with your primary / preferred method being the one on the face, not something with "OR" in it
What if someone's name actually does have "or" in it? That means "gold" in French e.g., and other things in other languages; it's not impossible for it to actually be part of someone's name. (In fact, there's a famous example: Saint Jean «Bouche d'Or», who's referred to by George Brassens in his song Mourir pour des idées.)
Do you want to have to put the whole X or Y or Z thing wherever you have to write your legal name, because some country takes the position that that is your full legal name according to your passport?
tl;dr: Don't intermingle metadata with data. Get the aliases written on your passport explicitly.
Aug 2, 2018, 12:56 pm
#12
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London
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Hey folks - I missed the subsequent resurrection of this thread and have since received a few PMs over the course of the past couple of years about this, so I should in good faith provide a - final - update.
Through perseverance, I have managed to amend the name found on all my documents, without having to resort to transliteration. Since all my English documentation was in order, it was relatively easy to insist that any English version of my name should match that - and not any incorrectly transliterated variant, however official it may be.
Changing the ID was the first step, which required an official statement of intent and production of the documentation which featured my English name. As soon as that was done, changing the passport was easy enough, as the data is copied from the ID card by default. I have since changed pretty much all my documentation, including drivers licence, so it all matches up. This is of particular importance for me, as a holder of dual nationality.
The law now supports a single latin-based version of the name (as opposed to two) so this should be a straightforward thing for people to do. Patience and time, are as always, key.
best of luck
Through perseverance, I have managed to amend the name found on all my documents, without having to resort to transliteration. Since all my English documentation was in order, it was relatively easy to insist that any English version of my name should match that - and not any incorrectly transliterated variant, however official it may be.
Changing the ID was the first step, which required an official statement of intent and production of the documentation which featured my English name. As soon as that was done, changing the passport was easy enough, as the data is copied from the ID card by default. I have since changed pretty much all my documentation, including drivers licence, so it all matches up. This is of particular importance for me, as a holder of dual nationality.
The law now supports a single latin-based version of the name (as opposed to two) so this should be a straightforward thing for people to do. Patience and time, are as always, key.
best of luck