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How the TSA beat fliers into submission

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Old Jul 29, 2014, 10:26 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by astroflyer
It's funny how even a small shift in tone can make a difference. I was recently screened at Heathrow and I alarmed the metal detector. (I can always wear my belt in the US without it going off, but I forget that doesn't always work overseas).

The security screener politely says:

He proceeded to very politely describe where he would be doing, etc.

Can you ever imagine a TSA agent initiating a pat-down that way. It's always delivered instead with phrases like "You need to..." I think a mere change in tone could go a long way to improving security...it certainly made me want to cooperate more.
Yeah, security in China has also always been very polite.

They also apparently never search the bags of foreigners--if x-ray sees something strange you are asked to show them the item. I have seen them search the bag of my SIL (Chinese citizen), though. I like the approach, there's much less chance of sticky fingers and it's probably faster besides as normally I have known what the item was and where it was packed. The only time I didn't recognize it they wouldn't have found it any faster than I did--I had used the space between the rails of the handle to pack some chopsticks. I didn't realize my wife had bought one metal pair and didn't recognize them on the x-ray.
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Old Jul 29, 2014, 11:51 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by ThinWallet
Mark my words: the next terrorist attack is not going to come from within an aircraft. It will come from outside of the aircraft.
It will come at the TSA checkpoint.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 1:52 am
  #33  
 
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"I don't ever want another 9/11. In my opinion, what happened on that day was our fault due to our lackadaisical attitude toward lives and safety. The problem has been rectified and I never want to go back."
How true, how true. Hey, I have an idea--let's give up *all* our Constitutional rights,
just to be completely safe.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 2:01 am
  #34  
 
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the next terrorist attack is not going to come from within an aircraft. It will come from outside of the aircraft.
^ As I have said on several posts: it is easier to shoot down a plane than to get on one. While I do not like some of the TSA theater, I do hope the TSA is looking in better security around airports (easier to use an RPG on takeoff and landing than at altitude - it takes more missile to hit a plane at cruising altitude).
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 4:48 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by eghansen
I support the TSA fully, absolutely and completely with all my heart and soul. I don't ever want another 9/11. In my opinion, what happened on that day was our fault due to our lackadaisical attitude toward lives and safety. The problem has been rectified and I never want to go back.
Hope this is sarcasm - if yes, bravo. If not, le sigh.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 8:25 am
  #36  
 
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the answer why is simple

Originally Posted by Spiff
More than 12 years after the TSA's creation, it seems our anger and outrage have run dry. Travelers have come to accept anything the agency throws at us, no matter how nonsensical and despite its civil-rights implications.
Well, what does one say to the TSA question: "Do you want to fly today?"

I hardly ever can answer "No" to this question.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 9:40 am
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by djm3
Well, what does one say to the TSA question: "Do you want to fly today?"
"I frankly could not care less. Now go find your supervisor for me. We're going to have a discussion about your job performance."

And, yes, I have really said just that. More than once. And, yes, I flew that day.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 9:47 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by ThinWallet
...[I]f I have been TSA Pre-checked, then I should be able to carry ANYTHING with me: AK-47, Chain Saw, Water, 10 laptops, a lighter, or whatever I want...
I posted a question to this effect on the TSA blog a couple of times. It has been ignored. However, I think PreCheck is useless with respect to cutting the risk of a terror event, so the TSA bloggers do not really need to answer that question. I would much rather they answer the question of how exactly TSA thinks PreCheck makes flights safer. As long as TSA continues to fail to provide independently reviewable cost-benefit and risk assessments for PreCheck, I will continue to hypothesize that PreCheck is about shutting up vocal frequent flyers, not making air travel safer.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 10:53 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by Schmurrr
I posted a question to this effect on the TSA blog a couple of times. It has been ignored. However, I think PreCheck is useless with respect to cutting the risk of a terror event, so the TSA bloggers do not really need to answer that question. I would much rather they answer the question of how exactly TSA thinks PreCheck makes flights safer. As long as TSA continues to fail to provide independently reviewable cost-benefit and risk assessments for PreCheck, I will continue to hypothesize that PreCheck is about shutting up vocal frequent flyers, not making air travel safer.
I'm not sure justifying PreCheck as being "safer" than regular screenings is the right answer. I think the TSA first needs to justify that the regular screenings (body scanners, pat downs) and their other security "enhancements" make flights safer than a conventional PreCheck screening. Many nations still use the typical screenings conducted during PreCheck with no issue.

I'd like to see a little more justification for the invasion of privacy, personally. I'm not saying we need to go back to metal detectors at each gate (though I fail to see how that level of screening would be any less secure than one check at the entrance to the terminal and then nothing thereafter), but I don't think we can attribute the lack of airplane terrorism since 2002 to body scanners and shampoo bans.

One huge change: FLIGHT DECK DOORS THAT LOCK! Another is the general awareness of the public. Nobody is acting suspicious and getting one over on a plane of 150+ people anymore. In 2001 the act was unfathomable and shocking, in 2014 there'd be a melee on the plane before anybody hijacked anything.

Smarter security, not "more" security . . .
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 11:05 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by eghansen
I support the TSA fully, absolutely and completely with all my heart and soul. I don't ever want another 9/11. In my opinion, what happened on that day was our fault due to our lackadaisical attitude toward lives and safety. The problem has been rectified and I never want to go back.
I understand your point of view. Tens of thousands of people die in car accidents every year. I don't ever want that to happen again. In my opinion, it's due to our lackadaisical attitude toward lives and safety. To rectify the problem, I'd recommend a 20 MPH speed limit and drunk driving checkpoints every mile. Police should also be able to search cars at will and randomly, just in case.

I've been talking to my boss about working from home full-time. There are a lot of trees in my neighborhood, and if one fell on me, it could do some serious damage. Also, I have to cross two busy intersections. The grocery store delivers just about everything I need, so I'd never really need to leave the house.

Mike
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 11:41 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by Himeno
It will come at the TSA checkpoint.
Already has and it was a whitish All American young man.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 12:38 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by TMtraveler
I'm not sure justifying PreCheck as being "safer" than regular screenings is the right answer. I think the TSA first needs to justify that the regular screenings (body scanners, pat downs) and their other security "enhancements" make flights safer than a conventional PreCheck screening. Many nations still use the typical screenings conducted during PreCheck with no issue.

I'd like to see a little more justification for the invasion of privacy, personally. I'm not saying we need to go back to metal detectors at each gate (though I fail to see how that level of screening would be any less secure than one check at the entrance to the terminal and then nothing thereafter), but I don't think we can attribute the lack of airplane terrorism since 2002 to body scanners and shampoo bans.

One huge change: FLIGHT DECK DOORS THAT LOCK! Another is the general awareness of the public. Nobody is acting suspicious and getting one over on a plane of 150+ people anymore. In 2001 the act was unfathomable and shocking, in 2014 there'd be a melee on the plane before anybody hijacked anything.

Smarter security, not "more" security . . .

Great post all around. Do what makes sense from an actual risk management and evidence-based perspective.

Originally Posted by mikeef
I understand your point of view. Tens of thousands of people die in car accidents every year. I don't ever want that to happen again. In my opinion, it's due to our lackadaisical attitude toward lives and safety. To rectify the problem, I'd recommend a 20 MPH speed limit and drunk driving checkpoints every mile. Police should also be able to search cars at will and randomly, just in case.

I've been talking to my boss about working from home full-time. There are a lot of trees in my neighborhood, and if one fell on me, it could do some serious damage. Also, I have to cross two busy intersections. The grocery store delivers just about everything I need, so I'd never really need to leave the house.

Mike
I'm with you on the cars. In fact, do we really need to be driving these dangerous machines at all? I'd like to see the government step in and protect us by banning automobiles entirely. Walking will get us anywhere we need to go locally and the government could use armored personnel carriers to transport us for long-distance trips.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 1:10 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Spiff
Your representative is up for reelection this midterm. If he/she supports TSA, definitely vote for someone else.
And if their opponent also supports TSA, then what?

"Welcome to the new boss ... same as the old boss ..."
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 2:44 pm
  #44  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Originally Posted by eghansen
I support the TSA fully, absolutely and completely with all my heart and soul. I don't ever want another 9/11. In my opinion, what happened on that day was our fault due to our lackadaisical attitude toward lives and safety. The problem has been rectified and I never want to go back.
"that" problem has never been repeated. Instead, we have had attacks on the land side of airports such as DME and LAX. We've had a mass knife attack at a rail station, bombing of the Boston Marathon, bombings of discos, rail stations, and underground stations, and the entire audience of a production of "North by Northwest" being taken hostage. so I am so very thrilled and happy that the TSA has successfully shifted the terrorism problem away from airports, and in to other areas which are some other Federal bureaucrat's problem. it's just so worth all those billions to see schoolchildren targeted instead of air travellers.
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Old Jul 30, 2014, 9:49 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by ThinWallet
What do you expect? The last time 4 planes were brought down, those involved were all brownish guys.
So you are one of those who views every brown guy with suspicion. Good luck then.

On topic: I find TSA to be rude usually. I'm usually prechecked courtsey of global entry but I still find them rude.
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