US No-Fly List
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The FBI has been busting up a government contractor's life over suspicions the person is the whistleblower source about the "functioning" of the US aviation blacklists that led to some press articles and this FT thread.
http://news.yahoo.com/feds-identify-...165741571.html
http://news.yahoo.com/feds-identify-...165741571.html
#17
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
No-fly list based partially on crime prediction
The Obama administration’s no-fly lists and broader watchlisting system is based on predicting crimes rather than relying on records of demonstrated offenses, the government has been forced to admit in court.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...ve-assessments
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,100
I don't understand how the No Fly List can be used against citizens without the protections of Due Process. Non-citizens have no absolute right to travel to the states so the process for them is likely legal but even then they should know if they are on thr NFL.
#19
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
US persons include US citizens and US residents.
Persons -- citizens or not -- subject to U.S. jurisdiction ought to have due process rights in the U.S.; that or we may as well just acknowledge that secret kangaroo "courts" are the wave of the future in America.
Persons -- citizens or not -- subject to U.S. jurisdiction ought to have due process rights in the U.S.; that or we may as well just acknowledge that secret kangaroo "courts" are the wave of the future in America.
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,100
Does a person who is not a US citizen and is outside of the US and its territories have a right to travel to the US? I think not and inclusion on the NFL for such a person is probably easier to enforce.
I think that government should be required to state why a person is a candidate for any watch list and the individual given the opportunity to contest such nomination in a court of law before being placed on any watch list.
I think that government should be required to state why a person is a candidate for any watch list and the individual given the opportunity to contest such nomination in a court of law before being placed on any watch list.
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
Simple: We, The People, allow it to happen.
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,100
#25
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Then again, too many people I talk with are of the "anything for security" and/or "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear" mentality. So I wonder what percentage of the population would actually be OK with this.
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
1. 95% of eligible voters actually vote over a couple of election cycles for candidates of all parties who respect the Constitution.
2. Sustained political action -- more than just one Opt Out Day. That was a success because the TSA simply shut off the Cancer Boxes and declared there were no lines. Figure out a way to kill ExtortionCheck and throw the privileged back into the checkpoint proletariat.
3. Orchestrating an air-tight legal case that blows the Surveillance State wide open. It would have to take someone with a lot of money and good lawyers.
4. Economic sanctions. We really need to get serious about boycotting the airlines and put the economic squeeze on the transportation sector. They didn't necessarily cause all of this, but they can force Congress into fixing it.
It took a lot of gutsy people to start videotaping cops, but, the People have affected change. It isn't nearly done yet, but there is now a hot market for police body cams.
Back in the early 90s, VDOT took one lane of the then-three lane Dulles Toll Road and made it HOV-2. After just one day of gridlock, there was massive civil disobedience. People generally ignored the HOV-2 restrictions and overwhelmed the cops. It took an act of Congress to get the rule rescinded. But, the people prevailed.
#28
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
What can be done: sue. Most civil rights issues in the US have eventually been won in courts.
#29
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,778
Don't you go disrespecting kangaroos by comparing them to the American judicial (official or otherwise) system!
#30
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,605