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USDHS - TSA July 2014: "Enhanced security" overseas airports with US flights

USDHS - TSA July 2014: "Enhanced security" overseas airports with US flights

Old Jul 3, 2014, 11:22 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by flyerORD
I wouldn't call anyone panty wasted. The sad fact is there are really people out there who wish to do the US harm, and airplanes will always be one way in which they attempt to carry that out.
The overwhelming majority of arrests for offenses that potentially put a flight at risk have involved TSOs and baggage handlers, people who have taken advantage of a one-time background check (if it was ever actually conducted) and free, unchallenged access to the sterile areas of the airport to smuggle contraband.

Up till now, they have assumed (correctly) that they were aiding in the smuggling of drugs, $, weapons - nothing that was actually a threat to the aircraft. However, it's quite clear that we've just been lucky that these errant TSOs and baggage handlers haven't been duped by someone with intent to harm the aircraft who substitutes an explosive for the usual drug/guns/$ shipment.
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 11:41 am
  #32  
 
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To be fair Chollie, there is a certain poster who just likes to attack people who support security. And the moderators allow it. Fortunately, this individuals generation is dying out - so hopefully we won't be subjected to it much longer. Meanwhile, bad guys will evolve with science as they invent new ways to bring aircraft down. Security needs to evolve as they do. People who don't want to evolve will just die from being miserable and hateful all the time.
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 11:42 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Often1
+1 - Everyone says they know how to manage the Yankees the day after.
Poor analogy.

I don't play for the Yankees. I'm quite comfortable choosing my own level of risk. I'm not able to do that with the federal government involving itself where it shouldn't. The airlines should choose their own security procedures and passengers should be able to choose between safe and sane, as opposed to stupid and criminally negligent.
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 11:44 am
  #34  
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Originally Posted by flyerORD
Meanwhile, bad guys will evolve with science as they invent new ways to bring aircraft down. Security needs to evolve as they do. People who don't want to evolve will just die from being miserable and hateful all the time.
There's no evolution in US airline "security". It's just stupid, knee-jerk overreactions that cater to cowards. Hopefully, the federal government will evolve and return security responsibilities to the airlines and hopefully charge those "leaders" and many employees of TSA and DHS with serious crimes.
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 11:54 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by chollie
Now we have dozens of people 'randomly' included in Pre based solely on checkpoint traffic management, not a background check or analysis of flight history. Meanwhile, the biggest criminal offenses at the airports continue to involve airport workers and TSOs with virtually unchallenged access to the sterile areas of the airport and the planes, an access based on a single background check (wonder if the agency who vetted Edward Snowden did some of these background checks). TSOs have been arrested on multiple occasions for smuggling contraband past the checkpoint unchallenged.
Yes it did, Chollie. USIS, which just got another contract from the government because they were the low bidder.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-g...ker-1404344583
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 11:54 am
  #36  
 
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I concede Spiff, you are absolutely correct. It's just 100% chance and luck that airliners aren't blown up daily. I apologize for suggesting that prevention works in a variety of ways. You are now free to continue attacking people.
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 12:02 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by flyerORD
I concede Spiff, you are absolutely correct. It's just 100% chance and luck that airliners aren't blown up daily. I apologize for suggesting that prevention works in a variety of ways.
Specious logic at its finest!
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 12:03 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by flyerORD
I concede Spiff, you are absolutely correct. It's just 100% chance and luck that airliners aren't blown up daily. I apologize for suggesting that prevention works in a variety of ways. You are now free to continue attacking people.
Spiff's point (I think) is that all this nonsense that they pull actually prevents nothing. It just makes people of average to below average intelligence think that something is being done, and that they're safe. Those of us with brains know that flying is a risk and that a determined person can probably outsmart the systems in place, and other of the new "enhancements" that they keep coming up with.
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 12:15 pm
  #39  
 
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I see. So the safety and security thread is for angry bitter people. I'm in the wrong place then.
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 12:20 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by flyerORD
To be fair Chollie, there is a certain poster who just likes to attack people who support security.
You need to continue to be fair. That certain poster isn't against security but against feckless and needless security that takes a scattergun approach at rooting out the bad guys. The entire system has devolved into a ludicrous search of little-old-ladies with blue hair and children in wheelchairs. While pilots are allowed to bring guns into the sterile area and ultimately into the cockpit, the TSA is confiscating 2 inch plastic six-shooters and people's canes. There are so many vectors that could be used to bring down a plane that can't be stopped by molestation by the TSA, that it is insanity to continue this "security theater."

Originally Posted by flyerORD
And the moderators allow it.
So what? The moderators also allow you to spew your contrary viewpoint as well.

Originally Posted by flyerORD
Fortunately, this individuals generation is dying out - so hopefully we won't be subjected to it much longer.
By "individuals generation" I assume you're referring to those who value their privacy. Maybe you're right. The Facebook generation doesn't seem to care too much about sharing every minute detail of their personal lives, so it doesn't seem too much of a leap for them to be indifferent to having their genitals stroked by TSA agents and their backgrounds checked thoroughly at every turn. Snowden was probably a couple of decades too late when he revealed that the government is spying on everything we do. Now we have people like you who don't care, though I'm wondering why you don't post your real name here.

Originally Posted by flyerORD
Meanwhile, bad guys will evolve with science as they invent new ways to bring aircraft down. Security needs to evolve as they do. People who don't want to evolve will just die from being miserable and hateful all the time.
That paragraph was an incredible mishmash of nonsense. Congratulations, you managed to conflate at least three ideas there.
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 12:33 pm
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Originally Posted by FredAnderssen
You need to continue to be fair. That certain poster isn't against security but against feckless and needless security that takes a scattergun approach at rooting out the bad guys. The entire system has devolved into a ludicrous search of little-old-ladies with blue hair and children in wheelchairs. While pilots are allowed to bring guns into the sterile area and ultimately into the cockpit, the TSA is confiscating 2 inch plastic six-shooters and people's canes. There are so many vectors that could be used to bring down a plane that can't be stopped by molestation by the TSA, that it is insanity to continue this "security theater."



So what? The moderators also allow you to spew your contrary viewpoint as well.



By "individuals generation" I assume you're referring to those who value their privacy. Maybe you're right. The Facebook generation doesn't seem to care too much about sharing every minute detail of their personal lives, so it doesn't seem too much of a leap for them to be indifferent to having their genitals stroked by TSA agents and their backgrounds checked thoroughly at every turn. Snowden was probably a couple of decades too late when he revealed that the government is spying on everything we do. Now we have people like you who don't care, though I'm wondering why you don't post your real name here.



That paragraph was an incredible mishmash of nonsense. Congratulations, you managed to conflate at least three ideas there.
Except if I didn't care I'd be bitter and hateful too.

Yes, because bombs today are constructed the same exact way they were a hundred years ago, just like antibiotics today are just like PCN. Oh the crazy evolution of science.

This is fun!
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 12:43 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by flyerORD

Yes, because bombs today are constructed the same exact way they were a hundred years ago, just like antibiotics today are just like PCN. Oh the crazy evolution of science.
Science evolves and so does bomb detection. Unfortunately, TSA and DHS choose not to embrace science that actually works when it comes to detecting bombs and precursors of explosives. TSA and DHS instead depend on junk science like behavior detection which has been debunked as non-science but does serve as yet another component of the Workfare system at TSA and DHS.
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 12:47 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Spiff
Science evolves and so does bomb detection. Unfortunately, TSA and DHS choose not to embrace science that actually works when it comes to detecting bombs and precursors of explosives. TSA and DHS instead depend on junk science like behavior detection which has been debunked as non-science but does serve as yet another component of the Workfare system at TSA and DHS.
I see, so the Israelis are idiots too!! And the legions of psychologists who framed the art are morons. I love it!!
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 12:56 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by flyerORD
I see, so the Israelis are idiots too!! And the legions of psychologists who framed the art are morons.
You're running a lot of misunderstanding into 2 sentences. What goes on at TLV is not what goes on at US airports, nor should it. Different country, different freedom. Please, show us some peer-reviewed research that shows that the behavior detection voodoo that is practiced at USA airports actually works. The General Accounting Office has already opined that it is a waste of money and resources:

Cite
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Old Jul 3, 2014, 1:04 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by flyerORD
To be fair Chollie, there is a certain poster who just likes to attack people who support security. And the moderators allow it. Fortunately, this individuals generation is dying out - so hopefully we won't be subjected to it much longer. Meanwhile, bad guys will evolve with science as they invent new ways to bring aircraft down. Security needs to evolve as they do. People who don't want to evolve will just die from being miserable and hateful all the time.
People who don't want to evolve will continue to be employed at TSA HQ and will continue to allow their cronies to bilk the taxpayer for ineffective, over-priced technology designed to line pockets and create the illusion of security, an illusion partly based on the reluctance of some to believe that true security is in place if they or those they deem worthy of profiling are not being visibly gravely inconvenienced.

People who don't evolve will continue to trot out false black-and-white out-dated scenarios based on what they falsely allege others have said without recognizing that actual arrest records show that the real threat is the TSOs and airport workers with unfettered access to the secure areas based solely on a single background check.

People who do evolve will understand that the rest of the world stays safe without being barked at, groin-chopped, removing shoes, having bags rifled out of their line of sight. People who have evolved realize that flights originating in the rest of the world do fly over the US and land in the US all the time, filled with pax who didn't get barked at, NoS'd, groin chopped or required to remove their shoes.
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