Frozen liquid is still a liquid?
May 7, 2014, 12:28 pm
#1
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Frozen liquid is still a liquid?
Last week DFW TSA informed me I could not bring frozen breastmilk in quantities greater than 3 oz through security. Ignoring the fact that "reasonable quantities" of breastmilk, formula, and juice for children above 3 oz are permitted through security, I assume in liquid form, since when are frozen materials not permitted?
I can't figure out if a lot has changed in the six months I haven't flown, or, you know, nothing has.
I can't figure out if a lot has changed in the six months I haven't flown, or, you know, nothing has.
May 7, 2014, 1:09 pm
#2
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Understanding the states of matter is well beyond the intelligence level of the TSA.
May 7, 2014, 1:38 pm
#3
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Frozen items are permitted as long as they are solid and in a “frozen state” when presented for screening. Cooling liquids or gels used to keep medical or infant/child exemptions cold are not bound by 3-1-1 requirements. These items may be presented at the screening checkpoint in a frozen or partially-frozen state. It is important to remember that any item must be properly screened before being allowed into the secure area of the airport.
May 7, 2014, 2:17 pm
#4
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From here, but as we have been told the web site is out of date.
It just seems that frozen anything shouldn't be subject to their liquid rules? I seem to remember someone here claiming he took frozen bottled water through security to avoid buying it airside.
May 7, 2014, 2:52 pm
#5
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Remember the Britney Spears debacle where she was allow through a TSA checkpoint with ice in a large container? The blog first stated that ice was allowed through a checkpoints:
"Ice is a solid. Therefore, ice is permitted through the checkpoint, as long as it's screened by the X-ray (Which it was)."
Then they had to retreat with this statement:
"Frozen gels/liquids are permitted if required to cool medical and infant/child exemptions. Frozen gels/liquids for any other purpose are not permitted."
This is reminiscent of the Stacey Armato incident. Obviously, the retraining agreed to by the TSA in settlement of her lawsuit against the TSA hasn't reached DFW.
"Ice is a solid. Therefore, ice is permitted through the checkpoint, as long as it's screened by the X-ray (Which it was)."
Then they had to retreat with this statement:
"Frozen gels/liquids are permitted if required to cool medical and infant/child exemptions. Frozen gels/liquids for any other purpose are not permitted."
This is reminiscent of the Stacey Armato incident. Obviously, the retraining agreed to by the TSA in settlement of her lawsuit against the TSA hasn't reached DFW.
May 7, 2014, 5:21 pm
#8
Join Date: Dec 2008
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The TSA´s official position is that ice is a solid, but chances that they will remember that at the checkpoint only seem to be significant if you are Brittney Spears (http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/11/response...gulp-over.html).
I tested the frozen liquid point and detailed my adventures here. Basically, experiences varied.
And yes, banning a whole state of matter is insane. I think a person who put up a stand with liquid nitrogen (very cold stuff - freezes just about anything) close to the checkpoint and offered a dunk for a dollar would get rich fast.
I tested the frozen liquid point and detailed my adventures here. Basically, experiences varied.
And yes, banning a whole state of matter is insane. I think a person who put up a stand with liquid nitrogen (very cold stuff - freezes just about anything) close to the checkpoint and offered a dunk for a dollar would get rich fast.
May 8, 2014, 1:00 am
#9
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Even though the rules don't say so, I suspect TSA means that "liquids" are those that flow at normal room temperatures and pressures ("normal conditions" to an industrial hygienist; i.e., 760 torr pressure (1 atmosphere) and 293.15 degrees Kelvin (about 70 degrees F)). Chemists and physicists use 273.15 degrees K (which IS the freezing point of water). That being pedantically said, around 70 degrees F (20 degrees C) at usual pressure is what they want, IMHO.
May 8, 2014, 5:55 am
#10
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Even though the rules don't say so, I suspect TSA means that "liquids" are those that flow at normal room temperatures and pressures ("normal conditions" to an industrial hygienist; i.e., 760 torr pressure (1 atmosphere) and 293.15 degrees Kelvin (about 70 degrees F)). Chemists and physicists use 273.15 degrees K (which IS the freezing point of water). That being pedantically said, around 70 degrees F (20 degrees C) at usual pressure is what they want, IMHO.
May 8, 2014, 8:03 am
#11
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May 9, 2014, 8:26 am
#12
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The TSA´s official position is that ice is a solid, but chances that they will remember that at the checkpoint only seem to be significant if you are Brittney Spears (http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/11/response...gulp-over.html).
May 10, 2014, 3:34 am
#13
Join Date: Apr 2013
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I fins it hard to fathom the rational to this.
The "reason" for banning liquids/gels is the concern than substance B mixed with substance B may create a explosive/hazardous result.
freezing the substance A + B to get through screening then thawing them to mix in theory has the same result.
The "reason" for banning liquids/gels is the concern than substance B mixed with substance B may create a explosive/hazardous result.
freezing the substance A + B to get through screening then thawing them to mix in theory has the same result.
May 10, 2014, 3:40 am
#14
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Actually, no. They do not think that deep. There is a specific explosive component that looks like water, but requires almost lab grade equipment to freeze it. Even then it returns to liquid state at at around 0 deg F. They assume, probably correctly, that if it is frozen, that it can not be this material as it will only remain frozen in special, laboratory grade containers.
Jun 13, 2014, 7:55 am
#15
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I took a full frozen bottle of shampoo (per advice from older threads) through DFW "security" back in January just because it demonstrates how silly all this is. The bag screener was confused, but the three-striper let it through.