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WP: "D.C. resident: TSA agent questioned if license from nations capital was valid"

WP: "D.C. resident: TSA agent questioned if license from nations capital was valid"

Old Apr 12, 2014, 9:10 am
  #106  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Their rule is more like this:

"The ID is either a photo ID issued by a Government authority, an airport issued SIDA or sterile area airport ID card, or aircraft operator issued RAMP or CREW ID".
I understand that, but that's not the letter of the rule. It clearly refers to a driver licence as "state-issued" and a DC licence is not, in fact, state issued. A clear and obvious oversight? Absolutely. But imagine you're new to the high stress job of protecting the nation's air travel infrastructure, bla bla bla and all you remember is "state-issued photo ID... oh ...., DC isn't a state... is that okay? *pauses* They GOTTA be okay with DC it's the country's capital but... better apologise and ask the boss just to be 100% sure"

In all, NOT a huge deal.
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 1:15 pm
  #107  
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Originally Posted by alexmt
I understand that, but that's not the letter of the rule. It clearly refers to a driver licence as "state-issued" and a DC licence is not, in fact, state issued. A clear and obvious oversight? Absolutely. But imagine you're new to the high stress job of protecting the nation's air travel infrastructure, bla bla bla and all you remember is "state-issued photo ID... oh ...., DC isn't a state... is that okay? *pauses* They GOTTA be okay with DC it's the country's capital but... better apologise and ask the boss just to be 100% sure"

In all, NOT a huge deal.
What I posted is the letter of the rule. Read the TSA SOP guides if you can. It's as I said.

What happened to the DC DL user is a substantive problem -- it shows that the TSA has front-line characters who don't follow the TSA SOP, including those SOPs about ID. The TSA rejection of a DC DL violates the letter of the rule.

I posted straight out of the TSA internal guide.
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 1:41 pm
  #108  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
What I posted is the letter of the rule. Read the TSA SOP guides if you can. It's as I said.

What happened to the DC DL user is a substantive problem -- it shows that the TSA has front-line characters who don't follow the TSA SOP, including those SOPs about ID. The TSA rejection of a DC DL violates the letter of the rule.

I posted straight out of the TSA internal guide.
Thank you, but that also means their internal guide doesn't match what they post on their public website. That's inconsistent, at best.
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 1:42 pm
  #109  
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Originally Posted by alexmt
Thank you, but that also means their internal guide doesn't match what they post on their public website. That's inconsistent, at best.
Just remember -- all those inconsistencies are designed to keep the bad guys on their tes...
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 2:35 pm
  #110  
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Originally Posted by alexmt
Thank you, but that also means their internal guide doesn't match what they post on their public website. That's inconsistent, at best.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: federal government websites aimed at the masses tend to dumb down things for the public and aren't a perfect reflection of what all is lawfully allowed/accepted.

The TSA is consistent in that it is inconsistent. And those characters even tell the public that the inconsistency is there for the public's safety -- just another example of TSA giving the public malarkey.
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 5:36 pm
  #111  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Their rule is more like this:

"The ID is either a photo ID issued by a Government authority, an airport issued SIDA or sterile area airport ID card, or aircraft operator issued RAMP or CREW ID".
If that is the case, then why won't a municipal ID work? Many cities in the US issue ID cards that are specifically designed for "undocumented" immigrants that can't get state ID.
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 6:15 pm
  #112  
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Originally Posted by cbn42
If that is the case, then why won't a municipal ID work? Many cities in the US issue ID cards that are specifically designed for "undocumented" immigrants that can't get state ID.
If? There is no if about it -- it is what it is.

At least some municipal-authority-issued photo ID's do work. It may have to do with the REAL ID Act or some other such idiocy or it may not -- I'd have to find that out and I'm not about to spend my time doing that at this time.
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 7:23 pm
  #113  
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Small update... I just spent the week in Denver, where they card everyone - and decided as an experiment, to only carry my PR ID.

Aside from the novelty of it, there were no problems with it. One person at a recreational dispensary asked for my passport - a quick "PR is part of the US" resolved that (oh yeah! I forgot!); and one bouncer at a club had to ask his manager "do we take PR ID's?", but that was resolved in seconds.

But that was in a fairly progressive well-educated city. I'll try that out in a place that's not so exemplary and follow up.

As far as the airports involved - SJU, MCO, DEN, and MIA - the ID was a non-issue. No questions, no raised eyebrows, no comments.
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 9:03 pm
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by WillCAD
millions of DC residents fly every year
LOL - that would be impressive. For the record, Washington, DC has a population of just under 650,000 people
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Old Apr 13, 2014, 12:13 am
  #115  
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Originally Posted by BSBD
LOL - that would be impressive. For the record, Washington, DC has a population of just under 650,000 people
And a large proportion of the residents can't afford to spend money taking discretionary trips under the current oligopolistic market conditions where the big 3 airline kingpins running the cartel show have made prices less affordable.
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Old Apr 13, 2014, 12:26 am
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by alexmt
I understand that, but that's not the letter of the rule. It clearly refers to a driver licence as "state-issued" and a DC licence is not, in fact, state issued. A clear and obvious oversight? Absolutely. But imagine you're new to the high stress job of protecting the nation's air travel infrastructure, bla bla bla and all you remember is "state-issued photo ID... oh ...., DC isn't a state... is that okay? *pauses* They GOTTA be okay with DC it's the country's capital but... better apologise and ask the boss just to be 100% sure"

In all, NOT a huge deal.
Many laws/regulations use "state" as shorthand and define the word to mean states and DC, for example 49 CFR 1570.3. I would be surprised if this were not the definition of "state" meant here.
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 8:26 pm
  #117  
 
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If an out-of-state ID is fake, they would get into trouble.
Unfortunately, each State has its own ways of "proving" a DL is valid. Years ago, I need to get a Texas charitable organization license, but had to take a course on what to look for to prove a valid TX license. I was told we should never tell anybody, but we had dozens of people in the class. Thus, I cannot tell, but there are deliberate typos and coded numbers.

While I do not like the idea of granting government(s) more power, a national ID (to be used for identification, including voting and TSA) makes some sense since we have been told voter fraud is / is not a major problem and obtaining a valid ID is easy / difficult - depending upon your political stance - thus solving both "problems". Since States (including DC and territories) already issue DLs and even non-DL ID cards, it would be just moving the power from the States to the Federal government. Maybe the card could even have check marks indicating it is also a drivers license, Medicare card, hand gun permit, etc. (it should be a chip-enbedded card).
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 8:52 pm
  #118  
 
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Ugh. Tried to edit previous post, but system won't allow me.

I wanted to add: "the state authorities would issue the card but in a Federal uniform format, with information sharing among the States and Federal government."
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Old Apr 16, 2014, 9:34 pm
  #119  
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Originally Posted by relangford

I wanted to add: "the state authorities would issue the card but in a Federal uniform format, with information sharing among the States and Federal government."
That's exactly what the REAL ID Act is trying to implement, but there has been lots of opposition from states and not a lot of money for implementation.
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Old Apr 17, 2014, 7:19 am
  #120  
 
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I noticed this morning while scanning the DC area news on WTOP.com that DC is moving forward with getting their driver's licenses in compliance with the Federal REAL ID requirements. http://www.wtop.com/109/3603648/Thou...d-new-licenses Texas licenses seem, as far as I can tell, to have all the information required by REAL ID but apparently the sharing via a Federal database and maybe the various "proofs of residency/citizenship" are an issue. I didn't spend a lot of time this morning researching what the issues are for Texas so I may be way off and there may be some other significant issues. I was a bit surprised at Texas' estimation of what it will or would cost to fully implement REAL ID, something in the neighborhood of $100M +/-. I did notice that Texas is what I'd call one of the "in the middle" states and they appear to be closer to compliance than a couple of dozen other states. I can't find a recent article but it doesn't appear that Texas has joined the couple of dozen or so states that are fighting REAL ID in court.
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