Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Reload this Page >

Homeland Security bans carry-on liquids on flights from US to Russia

Homeland Security bans carry-on liquids on flights from US to Russia

Old Feb 7, 2014, 1:15 am
  #16  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
How will TSA enforce this only for flights to Russia? Gate checks? Or forbid liquids for every flight in the system just in case someone might be traveling to Russia?
Gate-area and/or jet-bridge checks, as they never completely stopped doing those.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 1:40 am
  #17  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Originally Posted by Spiff
What is this explosive, please? And if such an explosive exists, it's detectable with ETP/ETD. There is no need for a blanket restriction on toothpaste.
Don't recall specifically. It was a powder that was mixed with toothpaste, which gave it the flavor. CNN had the story, complete with Michael Bay-style explosions.

Originally Posted by Spiff
You want to discuss chemical explosives? Meet me in TS&S and we can discuss anything you like. You can get as technical as you want, no problem. I'd be really pleased to meet *anyone* who can provide credible scientific evidence of the necessity for this stupid, unnecessary restriction.
I'd be happy to hear all of your scientific evidence about how it is impossible, being as how you are so certain. I don't proclaim to be an expert, so I'm more interested in your bonafides. For now, I suspect we will have to disagree over whether having to buy toothpaste at your destination rises to "stupid" or "unnecessary.
pbarnette is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 1:42 am
  #18  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Originally Posted by GUWonder
which flight was brought down by "toothpaste" explosive?
Cubana 455, IIRC.
pbarnette is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 1:47 am
  #19  
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,946
Originally Posted by pbarnette



I'd be happy to hear all of your scientific evidence about how it is impossible, being as how you are so certain. I don't proclaim to be an expert, so I'm more interested in your bonafides. For now, I suspect we will have to disagree over whether having to buy toothpaste at your destination rises to "stupid" or "unnecessary.
My credentials are more than a passing knowledge and understanding of chemistry, plus an unwillingness to accept explanations like "magic" or proof by authoritative statement.

If there's an explosive compound that can be disguised as toothpaste and can escape ETP/ETD detection, by all means let's hear about it. Otherwise, when government "security" fools who've yet to provide any evidence whatsoever that binary explosives exist start in with new scary claims, I now assume they're lying unless they can provide evidence to the contrary.

Again, if you want to discuss specifics I am more than happy to have a discussion on any technical level you like over in TS&S.

Originally Posted by pbarnette
Cubana 455, IIRC.
Dynamite or C4 is believed to be the explosive used; both are easily detectable with ETP/ETD. Got any thing else?
Spiff is online now  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 2:02 am
  #20  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 68,901
Originally Posted by realjd

In the ATL E concourse there's a walled off gate with a security screening checkpoint (metal detectors and xrays IIRC). It's used for flights to Israel from what I understand. If that's a standard restriction on Israel-bound flights, I'm sure they can use the same gates for Russia-bound flights.
There are no flights from ATL to Israel. Sadly, these were ended several years ago and today Delta only flies JFK-TLV.

On the JFK-TLV flights there are no x-rays (of people) at the gate but there are metal detectors and bag checks. Interestingly, on TLV-JFK flights there are only perfunctory checks of hand luggage (basically, you are asked if you have any liquids). I suspect that Delta knows that TLV has real security and is not worried about who and what is getting on its flights.

It is my understanding that the restrictions on flights to Russia are the same from every country and required by the Russians -- but will be lifted after the Winter Olympics.
Dovster is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 2:07 am
  #21  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Originally Posted by Spiff
My credentials are more than a passing knowledge and understanding of chemistry, plus an unwillingness to accept explanations like "magic" or proof by authoritative statement.
I appreciate the response. I think my point remains: I'm not going to get upset about having to leave my toothpaste behind because some guy (or gal) on the interweb with a "more than a passing knowledge and understanding of chemistry" says it is pointless. I'm not so rabidly anti-government that I'll ignore everything they say. You seem to come from a different angle, which is fine, but I find your implicit claims to scientific knowledge to be unsubstantiated.

Originally Posted by Spiff
Again, if you want to discuss specifics I am more than happy to have a discussion on any technical level you like over in TS&S.
I'll pass as I was hoping to be more impressed with your qualifications and was hoping that your concerns were based upon positive evidence about the possibilities of chemical explosives, rather than repetition of "prove it" as the substance of your discussion. That goes double when I get a very strong sense that no amount of proof would ever satisfy you.

Originally Posted by Spiff
Dynamite or C4 is believed to be the explosive used; both are easily detectable with ETP/ETD. Got any thing else?
I have that it was 30 years ago. I suspect terrorists have learned a thing or two.
pbarnette is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 2:17 am
  #22  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Originally Posted by pbarnette
Cubana 455, IIRC.
The one brought down by CIA assets using explosives which can be detected and interdicted by way of using ETD/ETP technology without a dog and pony show that goes after toothpaste?

That "pencil" detonator and plastic explosives bomb looked, smelled and tasted like toothpaste?
GUWonder is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 2:19 am
  #23  
us2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Southern California/In the air
Programs: DL
Posts: 10,382
It is seldom if ever that I'm a defender of TSA or DHS, but in this particular instance it is likely that they either had to issue this directive or face having US aircraft banned from Russia for the duration of the Olympics. I'd blame the Russians for this more than I'd blame the TSA/DHS. My $.02 FWIW.
us2 is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 2:22 am
  #24  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Originally Posted by us2
It is seldom if ever that I'm a defender of TSA or DHS, but in this particular instance it is likely that they either had to issue this directive or face having US aircraft banned from Russia for the duration of the Olympics. I'd blame the Russians for this more than I'd blame the TSA/DHS. My $.02 FWIW.
Would Putin really ban US and European flights to Russia during the duration of the Olympics over carry-on luggage restrictions? They already have a sort of PR disaster so far about these Olympics.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 2:43 am
  #25  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 68,901
Originally Posted by GUWonder
Would Putin really ban US and European flights to Russia during the duration of the Olympics over carry-on luggage restrictions? They already have a sort of PR disaster so far about these Olympics.
Yes, Putin would. Take a look at the measures he has taken in creating the "Ring of Steel" around the Olympics. Banning flights for lack of security would be nothing compared to that.

In fact, not all flights would have to be banned. He can simply tell airlines which will not cooperate that they have to divert to another country (eg: Poland) and that flights from Russia and the country which allowed the landings would take the passengers the rest of the way.

This would be basically the same thing as someone in Beirut who wants to fly to TLV. He can not do it directly so he flies to Cyprus or Amman and then on to Israel.
Dovster is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 2:54 am
  #26  
us2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Southern California/In the air
Programs: DL
Posts: 10,382
Originally Posted by GUWonder
Would Putin really ban US and European flights to Russia during the duration of the Olympics over carry-on luggage restrictions? They already have a sort of PR disaster so far about these Olympics.
If they're willing to make accusations like this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/07/wo...kraine.html?hp

anything is possible. I think this is about politics and the USG picking its battles as much as anything. And the US would hardly be in a position to object; we've imposed our own security scheme on other countries and their aircraft headed for the US.
us2 is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 2:55 am
  #27  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Well, we are meddling in the Ukraine and even getting caught cursing out EU leaders over our greater willingness to meddle there than the EU leaders.

Originally Posted by Dovster
Yes, Putin would.
He could but would he? Reading his mind is that scientific?

Russia further restricted LAGs in carry-ons last month. This TSA action took place this month.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 2:59 am
  #28  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Moscow
Programs: DL GM and so on
Posts: 1,200
There are dozens of airlines which fly to Russia and only Delta was singled out.
paulmoscow is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 3:03 am
  #29  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Originally Posted by paulmoscow
There are dozens of airlines which fly to Russia and only Delta was singled out.
No, but DL and SQ are the only non-Russian, commercially-scheduled passenger carriers that fly from the US to Russia. The gate checks for Aeroflot flights from the US to Russa haven't increased?
GUWonder is offline  
Old Feb 7, 2014, 4:13 am
  #30  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Moscow
Programs: DL GM and so on
Posts: 1,200
Originally Posted by GUWonder
The gate checks for Aeroflot flights from the US to Russa haven't increased?
They fly from Terminal 1 at JFK. Tsa.gov doesn't have any recent press releases regarding Russia.

One more airline that flies to the States non-stop is Transaero.
paulmoscow is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.