cbn42

In that case, should the airlines and airports involved be forced to pay for the 9/11 damage rather than the federal (and state and local) governments?

Just asking.

Spiff

If they were liable, yes. However, the only reason that the criminals succeeded in crashing the planes was cooperation by the crew with the criminals. Such cooperation was dictated by the federal government.

cbn42

If that were the case, then how come Flight 93 crashed? Its crew and passengers did not cooperate with the criminals, and yet it crashed (albeit not into its intended target).

Spiff

The crew cooperated initially (that's how the criminals entered the cockpit) and then the passengers and crew fought back when they realized from reports elsewhere that the federal government's policy of unconditional cooperation was a loser.

cbn42

But since there were no secure cockpit doors back then, the criminals could have probably entered anyway.

Spiff

Maybe, maybe not. The pilots have always had a crash-axe in the cockpit and might have fought back and/or just landed the plane instead of cooperating, as dictated by the federal government.

FliesWay2Much

Well, you have every right to post the website on every internal TSA message board you can find.

You're right, but, we are the most affected. People don't care until they get groped at a train station or bus stop, or, have themselves irradiated at a freeway checkpoint.

How can you possibly assert that someone, in the name of the United States government, who fondled your genitals in a private room, was professional?

No, they aren't needed. Nothing about the security checkpoints on 9/11/2001 caused the hijackings. We have argued that point until we are blue in the face. This is all about security theater, with the audience being the Congress.

Absolutely. I would invite those who care to look through previous threads in which people have written about how much their air travel has been reduced or eliminated as a result of the TSA and their draconian procedures. I have driven from Washington DC to New Orleans, Cleveland, Atlanta, and Boston rather than fly -- all within the past six months. For the other trips, I use video teleconferencing whenever possible, often at the expense of really weird work hours. I'm just one guy, but, if you multiply me times many more who do this a lot more often then me, it's pretty easy to show just how many tens of millions of dollars in revenue the TSA has cost the airline industry. THEY are the ones who ought to be screaming bloody murder.

GUWonder

Medical quackery has been deemed effective by subjects of the cure-all, snake-oil salesmen before. It comes down how effectiveness is defined/perceived. Having no measurably-demonstrated statistically significant reduction in adverse outcomes isn't my idea of effectiveness. However, when the objective is to play charlatan and exploit the emotions and relative ignorance of elements of the public and gain from the material self-interests of shameless self-dealing types, then it's effective for the TSA.

KiwionMissions

I am a New Zealander and first time ever touched my foot in USA early this year as my kids both would really love to see the USA.

I am so ANGRY the fact that TSA had ruined my daughter's suitcase. We went to Macy's in NYC and my daughter really want a new suitcase, so we let her choose one and especially mentioned to find one that has TSA lock on it.

She was due to fly to LHR that night and will only have few hours in our home after her NYC flight.

I was sooooooooooooo disappointed when finding her BRAND NEW suitcase lock has been cut. It is a brand new SAMSONITE suit case that she wanted to take to UK.

This is really appalling, I understand that even a brand new suitcase may have fault in them, but why on earth do they not calling us and get us to open the case? What is it about opening them behind our back? Surely they know that we are in the airport by the time they have our bags?

I really think that they should have more courtesy to other people, but obviously not. I hope that will be my first and my last time to ever go to USA thank you.

cbn42

Since terrorism is so rare to begin with, it would be almost impossible to have a "measurably-demonstrated statistically significant reduction" in terrorist incidents, no matter what you do. Therefore, by your logic, all security measures are ineffective.

GUWonder

The above conclusion/claim is not true at all. Security measures exist for reasons beyond just interdicting an act of terrorism underway at an airport and/or on a plane.

cbn42

So if you don't look at terrorism, how do you propose to measure the effectiveness of security measures?

hnussbacher

There is a bug in the poll page of:
http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler....ve-is-the-tsa/
If you Firefox 22.0 then the submit button will not appear.
IE 10 works.

ScatterX

I'd have truly independent organizations evaluate the necessity, safety, and effectiveness of all security measures. The analysis and results should be published--with minimal redaction--for public scrutiny.

Having the fox evaluate the need for a chicken fryer doesn't work out so well for the chickens.

cbn42

Yes, but on what criteria?

As we established earlier, terrorism is so rare that you can't measure changes in terrorist activity from year to year in any meaningful way.