TSA "choice" @SMF: open sealed baby formula or 1 parents gets grope
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,723
TSA "choice" @SMF: open sealed baby formula or 1 parents gets grope
Traveling with my wife and 1-year-old through SMF, after my wife and I were both let through the WTMD and were re-packing our stuff, the female screener who grabbed our tray of formula and baby food off the x-ray had a new speech. She needed to do "tests" that would require opening the factory-sealed sterile pre-made formula bottles (which you are supposed to throw away an hour after opening), *or* one parent would get a patdown.
After a few seconds of incredulous-ness and pointing out that this had never been an issue before in many travels with the baby and that they have swabbed the sealed bottles and been done, I told her in no uncertain terms that she was not opening the bottles and asked her if she had any intention of patting down the baby. She said no, and then she let us choose which parent was being patted down.
Implementation of this "policy" was poor and amateurish beyond the absurd, making normal TSA behavior seem professional and making it obvious this was a made-up local routine. Since we were given this "choice" after going through the WTMD, we had already re-packed our stuff (except the ever-so-evil liquids) and I had put my shoes and belt back on. Needless to say that by letting us pick the pat-down-parent and letting us pack our stuff, anything nefarious could have been stashed.
So then I get sent over for a standard opt-out patdown, except I have to again remove my shoes and belt and wallet that I had already put back on. Male assist got a little snarky when I insisted on him pre-testing his gloves with the ETD, and he refused to re-use the paper swab he had pre-tested on the post patdown-ETD. (groper: "it is against policy to re-use them to prevent false alarms." Uh, yeah, that's why we already tested it.) But at least the second swab came from the same box.
After being released from this show, I decide to go have a few words with the 3-striper sitting at his little podium. I opened by saying I didn't appreciate a retaliatory patdown for not letting them open my formula bottles and that this had never occurred at other airports and it was obvious that SMF was making up their own rules. His response was textbook TSA. First he asked if my formula was over 3.4 oz. (Duh?) Then he said that if I went to the TSA website it would talk about policies for formula, and I responded that the website said nothing about patting down parents if you won't open your formula. Then he pulled the "I have 4 kids and understand formula" routine and that they understand you have to throw away opened formula which is why they give the "choice" of the patdown. Then I again mentioned how this had not been the case on 7 previous trips through TSA with this baby. And then he pulled the "on my watch, we pat down one of the parents in this case," which I took as a tacit admission that either he or his boss made up this silly and poorly-implemented rule. At that point I walked away (he was still rambling).
I can only imagine what they would have done if I was traveling alone with the baby and wouldn't let them open the bottles (probably nothing; they don't want youtube video of a screaming or worse running-away baby). As it was, my 12-month old got to sit in his stroller and watch me get a full on TSA grope while I made eye contact with him and told him to watch. He will be taught what to think of government goons in smurf-blue uniforms and to be suspicious of anyone with a badge; I have no problem with starting early. If he's going to have to live in this police-state we're creating, he needs to learn about it.
After a few seconds of incredulous-ness and pointing out that this had never been an issue before in many travels with the baby and that they have swabbed the sealed bottles and been done, I told her in no uncertain terms that she was not opening the bottles and asked her if she had any intention of patting down the baby. She said no, and then she let us choose which parent was being patted down.
Implementation of this "policy" was poor and amateurish beyond the absurd, making normal TSA behavior seem professional and making it obvious this was a made-up local routine. Since we were given this "choice" after going through the WTMD, we had already re-packed our stuff (except the ever-so-evil liquids) and I had put my shoes and belt back on. Needless to say that by letting us pick the pat-down-parent and letting us pack our stuff, anything nefarious could have been stashed.
So then I get sent over for a standard opt-out patdown, except I have to again remove my shoes and belt and wallet that I had already put back on. Male assist got a little snarky when I insisted on him pre-testing his gloves with the ETD, and he refused to re-use the paper swab he had pre-tested on the post patdown-ETD. (groper: "it is against policy to re-use them to prevent false alarms." Uh, yeah, that's why we already tested it.) But at least the second swab came from the same box.
After being released from this show, I decide to go have a few words with the 3-striper sitting at his little podium. I opened by saying I didn't appreciate a retaliatory patdown for not letting them open my formula bottles and that this had never occurred at other airports and it was obvious that SMF was making up their own rules. His response was textbook TSA. First he asked if my formula was over 3.4 oz. (Duh?) Then he said that if I went to the TSA website it would talk about policies for formula, and I responded that the website said nothing about patting down parents if you won't open your formula. Then he pulled the "I have 4 kids and understand formula" routine and that they understand you have to throw away opened formula which is why they give the "choice" of the patdown. Then I again mentioned how this had not been the case on 7 previous trips through TSA with this baby. And then he pulled the "on my watch, we pat down one of the parents in this case," which I took as a tacit admission that either he or his boss made up this silly and poorly-implemented rule. At that point I walked away (he was still rambling).
I can only imagine what they would have done if I was traveling alone with the baby and wouldn't let them open the bottles (probably nothing; they don't want youtube video of a screaming or worse running-away baby). As it was, my 12-month old got to sit in his stroller and watch me get a full on TSA grope while I made eye contact with him and told him to watch. He will be taught what to think of government goons in smurf-blue uniforms and to be suspicious of anyone with a badge; I have no problem with starting early. If he's going to have to live in this police-state we're creating, he needs to learn about it.
#2
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
#3
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston
Programs: CO Platinum
Posts: 283
If you are in this situation again, ask..no demand a LEO. The majority of police are decent (unlike the vast majority of TSOs) and may help bring this to a quick resolution. There's very little downside since asking for a LEO is not interering, obstructing, or anything else.
#4
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bellevue,Ne,USA
Posts: 164
Actually this is the procedure for medically necessary liquids over 3.4 oz this includes sealed baby formula.
Here is a quote from the TSA website under the Medically Necessary Liquids heading:
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
Here is a quote from the TSA website under the Medically Necessary Liquids heading:
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,148
Actually this is the procedure for medically necessary liquids over 3.4 oz this includes sealed baby formula.
Here is a quote from the TSA website under the Medically Necessary Liquids heading:
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
Here is a quote from the TSA website under the Medically Necessary Liquids heading:
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
From this section: http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-informat...-and-beverages comes:
Beverages
Travelers may carry through security checkpoints travel-size toiletries (3 ounces or less) that fit comfortably in ONE, QUART-SIZE, clear plastic, zip-top bag.
After clearing security, travelers can bring beverages and other items purchased in the secure boarding area on-board aircraft.
There is no restriction on the amount of baby formula, breast milk, or medicines you can bring, but they must be declared and presented for inspection at the checkpoint.
Travelers may carry through security checkpoints travel-size toiletries (3 ounces or less) that fit comfortably in ONE, QUART-SIZE, clear plastic, zip-top bag.
After clearing security, travelers can bring beverages and other items purchased in the secure boarding area on-board aircraft.
There is no restriction on the amount of baby formula, breast milk, or medicines you can bring, but they must be declared and presented for inspection at the checkpoint.
Medically necessary liquids are allowed through a checkpoint in any amount once they have been screened. However, it is recommended that passengers limit the amount of liquid to what is reasonably necessary for his or her flight. Passengers should inform an officer if a liquid or gel is medically necessary and separate it from other belongings before screening begins.
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
OP -- might want to consider contacting your local media, since it's clear by the TSA's own rules that you were retaliated against.
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,723
(bolding yours, color mine)
I didn't request that the liquid not be x-rayed. I sent it right through the x-ray just like I have 7 other in the last 8 months.
This wasn't a LEO-worthy situation for me, just a bad police-state joke in the form of security theater. The TSA would have told the LEO it was TSA policy (policy which the LEO isn't allowed to see either), and the LEO would shrug his shoulders.
Groping my son would have been a LEO-worthy situation, hence my asking if they intended to touch the baby.
Actually this is the procedure for medically necessary liquids over 3.4 oz this includes sealed baby formula.
Here is a quote from the TSA website under the Medically Necessary Liquids heading:
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
Here is a quote from the TSA website under the Medically Necessary Liquids heading:
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
This wasn't a LEO-worthy situation for me, just a bad police-state joke in the form of security theater. The TSA would have told the LEO it was TSA policy (policy which the LEO isn't allowed to see either), and the LEO would shrug his shoulders.
Groping my son would have been a LEO-worthy situation, hence my asking if they intended to touch the baby.
#7
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bellevue,Ne,USA
Posts: 164
No, you're wrong and have things garbled.
From this section: http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-informat...-and-beverages comes:
...and, from the page you quoted: http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-informat...essary-liquids, is this:
From your own website, "baby food" ≠ "medically necessary liquids." Further, "medicines" ≠ "medically necessary liquids." So, at least three TSA clerks are making this up.
OP -- might want to consider contacting your local media, since it's clear by the TSA's own rules that you were retaliated against.
From this section: http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-informat...-and-beverages comes:
...and, from the page you quoted: http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-informat...essary-liquids, is this:
From your own website, "baby food" ≠ "medically necessary liquids." Further, "medicines" ≠ "medically necessary liquids." So, at least three TSA clerks are making this up.
OP -- might want to consider contacting your local media, since it's clear by the TSA's own rules that you were retaliated against.
#8
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bellevue,Ne,USA
Posts: 164
(bolding yours, color mine)
I didn't request that the liquid not be x-rayed. I sent it right through the x-ray just like I have 7 other in the last 8 months.
This wasn't a LEO-worthy situation for me, just a bad police-state joke in the form of security theater. The TSA would have told the LEO it was TSA policy (policy which the LEO isn't allowed to see either), and the LEO would shrug his shoulders.
Groping my son would have been a LEO-worthy situation, hence my asking if they intended to touch the baby.
I didn't request that the liquid not be x-rayed. I sent it right through the x-ray just like I have 7 other in the last 8 months.
This wasn't a LEO-worthy situation for me, just a bad police-state joke in the form of security theater. The TSA would have told the LEO it was TSA policy (policy which the LEO isn't allowed to see either), and the LEO would shrug his shoulders.
Groping my son would have been a LEO-worthy situation, hence my asking if they intended to touch the baby.
All I'm saying is they weren't making up policy on the spot that this is the way its supposed to work.
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 27,997
While it does say that there is no restriction on the amount iof formula, breast milk or medicines that are allowed. If they are oversized they are subject to additional screening, that includes having the passenger open up the container and doing the test strip. If however the passenger does not want to open up the oversized containers then the passenger is subject to additional screening because we have no way of testing the oversized liquid.
Perhaps I am just not educated well enough to understand but how does groping the passenger validate what is in an oversized container?
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,148
While it does say that there is no restriction on the amount iof formula, breast milk or medicines that are allowed. If they are oversized they are subject to additional screening, that includes having the passenger open up the container and doing the test strip. If however the passenger does not want to open up the oversized containers then the passenger is subject to additional screening because we have no way of testing the oversized liquid.
#11
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 219
What purpose does it serve?
It's ok if you don't have the answer right now - ask your superiors and see what the official line is. We'd love to know.
#12
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
#13
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Actually this is the procedure for medically necessary liquids over 3.4 oz this includes sealed baby formula.
Here is a quote from the TSA website under the Medically Necessary Liquids heading:
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
Here is a quote from the TSA website under the Medically Necessary Liquids heading:
Liquids, gels, and aerosols are screened by X-ray and medically necessary items in excess of 3.4 ounces will receive additional screening A passenger could be asked to open the liquid or gel for additional screening. TSA will not touch the liquid or gel during this process. If the passenger does not want a liquid, gel, or aerosol X-rayed or opened for additional screening, he or she should inform the officer before screening begins. Additional screening of the passenger and his or her property may be required, which may include a patdown.
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,723
I've never even seen one of the magic test strips. What I have seen is ETD swabs and/or the "bottle scanner" that they set the bottle in and presumably uses some sort of IR or microwave type scan.
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 27,997
Thank you. that was going to be my question. How does groping a passenger "prove" that the liquid in whatever oversize containers they have brought into the airport is safe?
What purpose does it serve?
It's ok if you don't have the answer right now - ask your superiors and see what the official line is. We'd love to know.
What purpose does it serve?
It's ok if you don't have the answer right now - ask your superiors and see what the official line is. We'd love to know.