Unpleasant Immigration official at MSP
#1
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Unpleasant Immigration official at MSP
I know these experiences can be quite common, but I observed a rather obnoxious immigration official at Minneapolis/St Paul on Tuesday (15th June), and I was wondering if other people would have felt the same if they observed it.
I arrived on a Delta flight at about 1700 on Tuesday. At immigration, the guy immediately in front of me in the queue walked up to the counter and was met by what seemed at first to be a pleasant immigration official. I thought it was nice as he would be serving me next. I could hear the coversation quite clearly. The guy he was serving was maybe in his early twenties and from his accent appeared to be Eastern European. He was also pleasant and was enjoying some banter with the immigration officer, although he did appear somewhat nervous as I'm sure a lot of people do when entering the United States.
After about one minute it became apparent that he hadn't been given the correct forms by the crew onboard, and when the immigration officer told him this, he sighed and murmured "oh Jesus." At this point the immigration officer, whilst not shouting, suddenly changed his attitude and became quite intimidating to the young lad. Now it was two days ago so I cannot remember the exact phrases, but I was shocked by the attitude of the immigration officer who basically talked to him like a piece of trash and said that if he "cursed like that at him again he would be dealt with in severe terms". The young guy looked shocked and didn't really understand what he'd done wrong. The immigration officer kept telling him that "he's in the United States now" and that saying "Jesus" in that manner was swearing and that he shouldn't swear at an immigration officer. I'm really paraphrasing but I was stood their, in shock at first, but then I was quite seething at the dressing down he gave to the young lad. As an observer, no way was the attitude of the guy wrong. He just stood there becoming more and more worried until in the end he said "sorry" rather sheepishly.
After he served the man and let him in, I was next. I was bloody fuming, I can tell you, because what I saw was nothing more than a man using his power to pick on someone who was vulnerable and who hadn't done anything wrong really. Absolutely disgusting. I know it's easy to say this, but if I'd had more time I would have liked to ask the immigration officer what he would have said to me if I'd said the word "Jesus", because it's not a word I would describe as swearing. Secondly, the young lad didn't swear at the immigration officer. It was muttered quietly, and not at anybody in particular. Unfortunately, I had a connection to make and he could have made my life difficult in the future. He definitely should have been reported though as his attitude was completely wrong and his reaction completely over the top.
I arrived on a Delta flight at about 1700 on Tuesday. At immigration, the guy immediately in front of me in the queue walked up to the counter and was met by what seemed at first to be a pleasant immigration official. I thought it was nice as he would be serving me next. I could hear the coversation quite clearly. The guy he was serving was maybe in his early twenties and from his accent appeared to be Eastern European. He was also pleasant and was enjoying some banter with the immigration officer, although he did appear somewhat nervous as I'm sure a lot of people do when entering the United States.
After about one minute it became apparent that he hadn't been given the correct forms by the crew onboard, and when the immigration officer told him this, he sighed and murmured "oh Jesus." At this point the immigration officer, whilst not shouting, suddenly changed his attitude and became quite intimidating to the young lad. Now it was two days ago so I cannot remember the exact phrases, but I was shocked by the attitude of the immigration officer who basically talked to him like a piece of trash and said that if he "cursed like that at him again he would be dealt with in severe terms". The young guy looked shocked and didn't really understand what he'd done wrong. The immigration officer kept telling him that "he's in the United States now" and that saying "Jesus" in that manner was swearing and that he shouldn't swear at an immigration officer. I'm really paraphrasing but I was stood their, in shock at first, but then I was quite seething at the dressing down he gave to the young lad. As an observer, no way was the attitude of the guy wrong. He just stood there becoming more and more worried until in the end he said "sorry" rather sheepishly.
After he served the man and let him in, I was next. I was bloody fuming, I can tell you, because what I saw was nothing more than a man using his power to pick on someone who was vulnerable and who hadn't done anything wrong really. Absolutely disgusting. I know it's easy to say this, but if I'd had more time I would have liked to ask the immigration officer what he would have said to me if I'd said the word "Jesus", because it's not a word I would describe as swearing. Secondly, the young lad didn't swear at the immigration officer. It was muttered quietly, and not at anybody in particular. Unfortunately, I had a connection to make and he could have made my life difficult in the future. He definitely should have been reported though as his attitude was completely wrong and his reaction completely over the top.
#2
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No big surprise. Airport "officials," whether INS or TSA or whatever, probably
didn't go into the profession to aid the huddled masses yearning to breathe
freer but rather because they either didn't have what it takes to make it
elsewhere or wanted to exercise power in a somewhat more socially
acceptable way than kicking their cat.
didn't go into the profession to aid the huddled masses yearning to breathe
freer but rather because they either didn't have what it takes to make it
elsewhere or wanted to exercise power in a somewhat more socially
acceptable way than kicking their cat.
#3
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#4
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
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Posts: 9,236
The way that some people, especially power-tripping hourly-wagers, behave towards guests in their country is shameful.
Was the man a US citizen? I'm assuming not. I'm hoping not. If so, the CBP agent literally could not have kept him out of the US, no matter what.
It's a shame you didn't have time to have a word with the supervisor.
Was the man a US citizen? I'm assuming not. I'm hoping not. If so, the CBP agent literally could not have kept him out of the US, no matter what.
It's a shame you didn't have time to have a word with the supervisor.
#5
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Posts: 2,716
Airport "officials," whether INS or TSA or whatever, probably
didn't go into the profession to aid the huddled masses yearning to breathe
freer but rather because they either didn't have what it takes to make it
elsewhere or wanted to exercise power in a somewhat more socially
acceptable way than kicking their cat.
didn't go into the profession to aid the huddled masses yearning to breathe
freer but rather because they either didn't have what it takes to make it
elsewhere or wanted to exercise power in a somewhat more socially
acceptable way than kicking their cat.
After he served the man and let him in, I was next. I was bloody fuming, I can tell you, because what I saw was nothing more than a man using his power to pick on someone who was vulnerable and who hadn't done anything wrong really. Absolutely disgusting. I know it's easy to say this, but if I'd had more time I would have liked to ask the immigration officer what he would have said to me if I'd said the word "Jesus", because it's not a word I would describe as swearing. Secondly, the young lad didn't swear at the immigration officer. It was muttered quietly, and not at anybody in particular. Unfortunately, I had a connection to make and he could have made my life difficult in the future. He definitely should have been reported though as his attitude was completely wrong and his reaction completely over the top.
Had he said, oh ****, you wouldn't have even been able to type it here. He swore and the officer felt it was not appropriate. He said such. He got the guy to fill out the proper forms and let him in. The guy in line wasn't complaining about it. Why did you get upset about it? It was uttered quietly, but you heard it? Sure.
#7
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 926
"periods" are your friend. Also, please provide what evidence you have to make such a statement. I'm guessing you're a constant complainer in the security forum.
You were so fuming that you did nothing? Sure. It must have been horrible. So bad that you did nothing and then posted on the internet about it. Perhaps if it was worse you'd change your facebook status.
Had he said, oh ****, you wouldn't have even been able to type it here. He swore and the officer felt it was not appropriate. He said such. He got the guy to fill out the proper forms and let him in. The guy in line wasn't complaining about it. Why did you get upset about it? It was uttered quietly, but you heard it? Sure.
You were so fuming that you did nothing? Sure. It must have been horrible. So bad that you did nothing and then posted on the internet about it. Perhaps if it was worse you'd change your facebook status.
Had he said, oh ****, you wouldn't have even been able to type it here. He swore and the officer felt it was not appropriate. He said such. He got the guy to fill out the proper forms and let him in. The guy in line wasn't complaining about it. Why did you get upset about it? It was uttered quietly, but you heard it? Sure.
#8
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,347
I know these experiences can be quite common, but I observed a rather obnoxious immigration official at Minneapolis/St Paul on Tuesday (15th June), and I was wondering if other people would have felt the same if they observed it.
I arrived on a Delta flight at about 1700 on Tuesday. At immigration, the guy immediately in front of me in the queue walked up to the counter and was met by what seemed at first to be a pleasant immigration official. I thought it was nice as he would be serving me next. I could hear the coversation quite clearly. The guy he was serving was maybe in his early twenties and from his accent appeared to be Eastern European. He was also pleasant and was enjoying some banter with the immigration officer, although he did appear somewhat nervous as I'm sure a lot of people do when entering the United States.
After about one minute it became apparent that he hadn't been given the correct forms by the crew onboard, and when the immigration officer told him this, he sighed and murmured "oh Jesus." At this point the immigration officer, whilst not shouting, suddenly changed his attitude and became quite intimidating to the young lad. Now it was two days ago so I cannot remember the exact phrases, but I was shocked by the attitude of the immigration officer who basically talked to him like a piece of trash and said that if he "cursed like that at him again he would be dealt with in severe terms". The young guy looked shocked and didn't really understand what he'd done wrong. The immigration officer kept telling him that "he's in the United States now" and that saying "Jesus" in that manner was swearing and that he shouldn't swear at an immigration officer. I'm really paraphrasing but I was stood their, in shock at first, but then I was quite seething at the dressing down he gave to the young lad. As an observer, no way was the attitude of the guy wrong. He just stood there becoming more and more worried until in the end he said "sorry" rather sheepishly.
After he served the man and let him in, I was next. I was bloody fuming, I can tell you, because what I saw was nothing more than a man using his power to pick on someone who was vulnerable and who hadn't done anything wrong really. Absolutely disgusting. I know it's easy to say this, but if I'd had more time I would have liked to ask the immigration officer what he would have said to me if I'd said the word "Jesus", because it's not a word I would describe as swearing. Secondly, the young lad didn't swear at the immigration officer. It was muttered quietly, and not at anybody in particular. Unfortunately, I had a connection to make and he could have made my life difficult in the future. He definitely should have been reported though as his attitude was completely wrong and his reaction completely over the top.
I arrived on a Delta flight at about 1700 on Tuesday. At immigration, the guy immediately in front of me in the queue walked up to the counter and was met by what seemed at first to be a pleasant immigration official. I thought it was nice as he would be serving me next. I could hear the coversation quite clearly. The guy he was serving was maybe in his early twenties and from his accent appeared to be Eastern European. He was also pleasant and was enjoying some banter with the immigration officer, although he did appear somewhat nervous as I'm sure a lot of people do when entering the United States.
After about one minute it became apparent that he hadn't been given the correct forms by the crew onboard, and when the immigration officer told him this, he sighed and murmured "oh Jesus." At this point the immigration officer, whilst not shouting, suddenly changed his attitude and became quite intimidating to the young lad. Now it was two days ago so I cannot remember the exact phrases, but I was shocked by the attitude of the immigration officer who basically talked to him like a piece of trash and said that if he "cursed like that at him again he would be dealt with in severe terms". The young guy looked shocked and didn't really understand what he'd done wrong. The immigration officer kept telling him that "he's in the United States now" and that saying "Jesus" in that manner was swearing and that he shouldn't swear at an immigration officer. I'm really paraphrasing but I was stood their, in shock at first, but then I was quite seething at the dressing down he gave to the young lad. As an observer, no way was the attitude of the guy wrong. He just stood there becoming more and more worried until in the end he said "sorry" rather sheepishly.
After he served the man and let him in, I was next. I was bloody fuming, I can tell you, because what I saw was nothing more than a man using his power to pick on someone who was vulnerable and who hadn't done anything wrong really. Absolutely disgusting. I know it's easy to say this, but if I'd had more time I would have liked to ask the immigration officer what he would have said to me if I'd said the word "Jesus", because it's not a word I would describe as swearing. Secondly, the young lad didn't swear at the immigration officer. It was muttered quietly, and not at anybody in particular. Unfortunately, I had a connection to make and he could have made my life difficult in the future. He definitely should have been reported though as his attitude was completely wrong and his reaction completely over the top.
The second is that the officer allowed you to be way to close to the booth during the inspection. For you to have heard the passenger sigh and murmur "oh Jesus.", you were entirely too close to the booth or the statement was much louder that you are portraying. Every person’s inspection is a private affair not to be eavesdropped upon by the other passengers. Too much information can be discussed during the inspection that should not be public knowledge to the people around the inspection.
FB
#9
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 926
There are usually three sides to a story. Your side, the other guy’s side, and the truth, the truth is usually in the middle of the other two sides. We only have your version of the story. Assuming that your version is accurate the officer has two problems that need to be corrected. The first would be the manner that the inspection was conducted again assuming your version is accurate which we really don't know.
The second is that the officer allowed you to be way to close to the booth during the inspection. For you to have heard the passenger sigh and murmur "oh Jesus.", you were entirely too close to the booth or the statement was much louder that you are portraying. Every person’s inspection is a private affair not to be eavesdropped upon by the other passengers. Too much information can be discussed during the inspection that should not be public knowledge to the people around the inspection.
FB
The second is that the officer allowed you to be way to close to the booth during the inspection. For you to have heard the passenger sigh and murmur "oh Jesus.", you were entirely too close to the booth or the statement was much louder that you are portraying. Every person’s inspection is a private affair not to be eavesdropped upon by the other passengers. Too much information can be discussed during the inspection that should not be public knowledge to the people around the inspection.
FB
#10
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FB
#11
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ahh I didn't accuse anyone in this thread of being wrong other than the officer for conducting the inspection in earshot of another passenger. In the other threads on this forum, I only correct people when they are giving bad information. I also support those occasions with the cite from the law, CFR, and regulations. I do this only because it is a disservice for people to spread bad information based on their opinion and not the law. It will cause the people taking that bad information based on opinion and cause them bigger problems. I am sorry I tend to be direct and don't sugarcoat it. I give accurate information that I have checked to be true based on Law and regs or I don't comment and add to the noise.
FB
FB
#13
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,347
You do have a tendency to dismiss any criticism of the CBP. The Law or any other regulation does not encourage ill manners towards visitors. Does it? The problem the DHS/CBP has in this regard should be looked upon in training the people who represent their country at their borders.
When it comes to a US Customs and Border Protection officer, peoples perceptions are all over the board. What I expect of a Customs and Border Protection officer is going to be very different than what you expect of a Customs and Border Protection officer. I expect an officer to be polite, professional (which I am sure means something different to you than it does to me) knowledgeable, thorough, and efficient.
What the officer is not is a Wal-mart greeter. People forget that the officer standing in front of you is a Law Enforcement Officer. He is not a clerk, a guard, or the welcome wagon. You make perceive that is function is one of those but what is expected of him by his job function and description is very different. The goal of the traveler when passing through the Federal Inspection Area is often at odds to what is goal of the CBP officer is. The traveler wants to pass through as quickly as possible with the least amount of inconvenience as possible. The officer's know and understand this. However, remember my list of what is expected of the officer. The efficient part goes to wards the passenger's goal. The knowledgeable and thorough part often works at odds with the passenger's goal. The officer in his need to be thorough often holds the passenger up from their goal of passing as quickly as possible.
This often frustrates the passenger because the passenger if they are in compliance or not. The officer does not and has to verify for himself and this takes time. The officer should be polite during this process with few exceptions but the process does have to be completed to the officer's satisfaction. The exceptions would not take place at a primary booth and involve abusive up to assaultive passengers.
In this particular thread do I think the officer acted appropriately, I can't say for sure. I am betting that the officer could have been more polite. I am also betting the passenger was not as mild mannered as OP paints the picture to be. I believe this because I know how we generally do business. It is very unlikely that the passenger overheard the exchange unless it was quite a bit louder that the story portrays or the OP was standing somewhere he should not have been. Again, this would have been the officer's fault This is because our primary inspections areas are set up to avoid overhearing inspections as much as possible. We are less successful in our secondary areas in this regard because much more area is given to primary inspection.
Like I said much of the conflict is based in perceptions and expectations. What you expect and perceive the function and purpose of the officer is very different from what the officers directives define what his purpose and function is.
FB
#14
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 926
FB, you make valid points and I agree with most of it. However, I certainly do not expect an immigration officer to be the Wal Mart guy as you put it. The perceptions people get come from real life experiences. My understanding of professionalism is that an immigration officer performs his/her duty without insulting the person infront him/her. In other threads, as you might remember, I made the comparison of immigration officers in other countries. I am sorry to say that the CBP compares rather poorly with its counterparts in most of Europe and Asia (SIN, HKG, Japan) which are all affluent and face similar immigration challenges to the U.S.
#15
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Secondly, do you seriously think I would stand a chance of having my opinion heard? What I was going to do was tell the young lad that he shouldn't have been talked to like that and that I had heard everything and that unfortunately some people let the power go to their heads.
Also, even though you accuse me of not bothering to do something about it, yet I've taken my time to post on FT. That's how much it bothered me even though it wasn't directed at me.
The reason I got upset because I felt sorry for this lad who was being treat disgustingly by the immigration officer. You have to realise too that
It is very unlikely that the passenger overheard the exchange unless it was quite a bit louder that the story portrays or the OP was standing somewhere he should not have been. Again, this would have been the officer's fault This is because our primary inspections areas are set up to avoid overhearing inspections as much as possible. We are less successful in our secondary areas in this regard because much more area is given to primary inspection.