Sexism at the border: a personal account
Apr 6, 2013, 11:01 am
#16
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The next time it happened was two weeks later in Montreal's airport. After scanning my passport, without being asked a single question, I was immediately led to a back waiting room. When I was summoned into an office, the officer cut to the chase: "How much is he paying you to go on this trip?" He was referring to the man I was travelling with.
Confused, I just stared back at him for a few beats.
"N-nothing?"
The next question was whether this man was married or not. The answer, unfortunately for me, was yes. He asked whether I was planning on sharing a hotel bed with this man. I'm not one to sugar coat things and decided that now would not be a particularly good time to be found lying. Again, I answered yes. Righteous, the officer demanded what exactly I was doing in a bed with a married man.
"That's actually none of your business."
Confused, I just stared back at him for a few beats.
"N-nothing?"
The next question was whether this man was married or not. The answer, unfortunately for me, was yes. He asked whether I was planning on sharing a hotel bed with this man. I'm not one to sugar coat things and decided that now would not be a particularly good time to be found lying. Again, I answered yes. Righteous, the officer demanded what exactly I was doing in a bed with a married man.
"That's actually none of your business."
Apr 6, 2013, 2:50 pm
#18
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Except that she was travelling to Aruba, which is under Netherlands law, where adultery is not a crime. The US has no lawful grounds to act IMO. I doubt they'd meet the threshold for "transports" either, but IANAL in the US so I wouldn't know about that one.
Last edited by SeriouslyLost; Apr 6, 2013 at 3:01 pm
Apr 6, 2013, 2:54 pm
#19
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I think there is a cultural gap between the US (with it's faux morals) and much of the rest of the 'western' world: carrying condoms does not, in most of the civilized world, in and of itself denote anything about prostitution.
Apr 6, 2013, 2:59 pm
#20
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One more thought... This writer is upset that US CBP gave her so much trouble because they suspected her of being actively engaged in an illegal activity. And indeed, it sounds like they were total jerks about it. But I wonder if she is aware that her own country routinely turns away Americans with minor, decades-old, single criminal offenses on their records (a DUI when they were young and stupid, for example) after they have long since straightened up and paid their debt to society.
Apr 6, 2013, 4:04 pm
#21
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No direct YUL-AUA flights AFAIK and even just transiting the US you are subject to US laws and CBP discretion re entry. I'm no lawyer either and I don't know that the Mann Act would apply, I was just supplying a counterpoint to the claim that "it's none of CBP's business". There are enough accounts here and elsewhere which illustrate that everything is CBP's business apparently.
Not saying it's right...
Apr 6, 2013, 4:34 pm
#22
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She was (they were) "detained by U.S. border officials on my way to or through the States...The next time it happened was two weeks later in Montreal's airport."
No direct YUL-AUA flights AFAIK and even just transiting the US you are subject to US laws and CBP discretion re entry. I'm no lawyer either and I don't know that the Mann Act would apply, I was just supplying a counterpoint to the claim that "it's none of CBP's business". There are enough accounts here and elsewhere which illustrate that everything is CBP's business apparently.
Not saying it's right...
No direct YUL-AUA flights AFAIK and even just transiting the US you are subject to US laws and CBP discretion re entry. I'm no lawyer either and I don't know that the Mann Act would apply, I was just supplying a counterpoint to the claim that "it's none of CBP's business". There are enough accounts here and elsewhere which illustrate that everything is CBP's business apparently.
Not saying it's right...
Apr 6, 2013, 8:45 pm
#24
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States
http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2...TKM/story.html
This doesn't mean the laws are enforced, of course, but they exist.... Now, is it up to CBP to attempt to prevent individual state laws from being broken? Doubt it...
Apr 6, 2013, 11:11 pm
#25
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It is also a crime in the UCMJ (for the military).
EDIT- I just saw the post above mine, which has some good links to state laws too.
Apr 6, 2013, 11:45 pm
#26
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It is unfortunate that condoms equates to prostitution or drug mule in the eyes of officials.
Have they not heard of safe sex ie no little babies the lady does not want - most likely the married man does not want either - and no transmission of diseases either
I can remember being questioned as to why I had a few condoms on me in 1986, I just said - if I got lucky I don't want to catch AIDS - and be a burden to the state - this was New Zealand which has good public health care.
I understand Border policing to be about are you entering the country legally as in do you have a right to enter and are you entering on the correct visa.
It is not about moral judgements are you sleeping with a man or a woman, or a combination of.
While I understand that adultery may not be what everyone believes in - is it our business - the gentleman concerned may be married to someone with whom they have an agreement - there boundaries may not be your boundaries - so please until you are ready for someone to tell you how to run your relationship - keep those thoughts to yourself
I would be tempted to run this thru the media - but the issue is that the officers have already branded her a slut and a no good girl - so that makes it very difficult for her to cross the border between Canada and USA
Have they not heard of safe sex ie no little babies the lady does not want - most likely the married man does not want either - and no transmission of diseases either
I can remember being questioned as to why I had a few condoms on me in 1986, I just said - if I got lucky I don't want to catch AIDS - and be a burden to the state - this was New Zealand which has good public health care.
I understand Border policing to be about are you entering the country legally as in do you have a right to enter and are you entering on the correct visa.
It is not about moral judgements are you sleeping with a man or a woman, or a combination of.
While I understand that adultery may not be what everyone believes in - is it our business - the gentleman concerned may be married to someone with whom they have an agreement - there boundaries may not be your boundaries - so please until you are ready for someone to tell you how to run your relationship - keep those thoughts to yourself
I would be tempted to run this thru the media - but the issue is that the officers have already branded her a slut and a no good girl - so that makes it very difficult for her to cross the border between Canada and USA
Apr 7, 2013, 1:01 am
#27
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Condom possession is no reliable indication of engagement in drug smuggling nor of engagement in prostitution. [An awful canard is what the perpetual governmental prostitution and drug "wars" are.]
In some OECD countries, the largest personal bulk purchases of condoms for personal use/self-possession is by women, and these women are far less likely to be prostitutes than those who don't bulk buy a lot of condoms for self-use.
In some OECD countries, the largest personal bulk purchases of condoms for personal use/self-possession is by women, and these women are far less likely to be prostitutes than those who don't bulk buy a lot of condoms for self-use.
Apr 7, 2013, 6:58 am
#28
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Now a days, I keep wondering where these darn cold sores came from.
Apr 8, 2013, 9:19 am
#30
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Right, now I understand what you're getting at. I'm just saying that I don't see how CBP can apply US laws for events outside the US when no laws are being broken outside the US. I agree that that won't stop certain/most CBP agents with a moral stick up their arse from trying, but I don't see it <ahem> flying once it hit a court if they really tried to...err.... try it.
In recent cases, the courts have opted for a middle ground. In one, it found that Congress did indeed have the legislative power to proscribe illicit overseas commercial sexual activity by an American who had traveled from the United States to the scene of the crime
It would not be a far reach to see CBP try to apply that concept to folks merely passing through the US as they have even less rights in the US than American Citizens do....