TSA and Belts
Apr 3, 2013, 1:18 am
#17
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Perhaps they should be using metal detectors instead then . . .
Apr 3, 2013, 8:40 am
#18
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Well, the obvious problem with that is, since TSA did away with the hand held metal detector when they began Scope and Grope, there is no way to localize a WTMD alarm, so it will result in a full-body grope.
Apr 6, 2013, 10:55 pm
#19
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Apr 7, 2013, 6:38 am
#20
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True, but I get the impression that it varies from airport to airport. I can't imagine that every WTMD in the country is exactly the same make, model, and age, or is calibrated precisely to the same standard for sensitivity, so some must alarm more than others. As I said, pre-scope and grope, particularly in the first few years after 9/11, BWI often made all travelers remove belts because so many common buckles were alarming. Heck, I alarmed once with a perfectly ordinary WalMart buckle that has less metal in it than a roll of quarters.
My point is that IF your belt buckle, or underwire bra, or other innocuous object, alarms the WTMD, the lack of a HHMD to localize the alarm means that you're in for a full-body grope.
My point is that IF your belt buckle, or underwire bra, or other innocuous object, alarms the WTMD, the lack of a HHMD to localize the alarm means that you're in for a full-body grope.
Apr 8, 2013, 3:09 am
#21
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True, but I get the impression that it varies from airport to airport. I can't imagine that every WTMD in the country is exactly the same make, model, and age, or is calibrated precisely to the same standard for sensitivity, so some must alarm more than others. As I said, pre-scope and grope, particularly in the first few years after 9/11, BWI often made all travelers remove belts because so many common buckles were alarming. Heck, I alarmed once with a perfectly ordinary WalMart buckle that has less metal in it than a roll of quarters.
My point is that IF your belt buckle, or underwire bra, or other innocuous object, alarms the WTMD, the lack of a HHMD to localize the alarm means that you're in for a full-body grope.
My point is that IF your belt buckle, or underwire bra, or other innocuous object, alarms the WTMD, the lack of a HHMD to localize the alarm means that you're in for a full-body grope.
Apr 9, 2013, 12:56 am
#22
Join Date: Aug 2012
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If it was WTMD, it was because the two buckles at the same position on opposite sides of the body created a tangent and appeared as a larger metal mass to the WTMD than was actually present. In most cases, when one side was unclipped or removed from one side and thrown over a shoulder, the tangent went away. If the buckles were large, the WTMD would still alarm.
If it was a scanner, I have no idea why one side should be unclipped.
Last edited by NextTrip; Apr 9, 2013 at 1:07 am
Apr 9, 2013, 1:01 am
#23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LAS
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Used to be limited to one extra try. More recently, you are given a chance to divest as many times as you want, until you give up and say you don't have anything else to divest. But, only with the WTMD, not the scanners.
Last edited by NextTrip; Apr 9, 2013 at 1:06 am
Apr 9, 2013, 4:31 am
#24
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As I remember it the conversation was about both. Someone asked if suspenders would be OK. The TSO that was in on the conversation said that suspenders would not have to be removed for either, but it might help to unclip one side for the WTMD for exactly the reason you mentioned.
Even then, there is less metal in four suspender's clips that there is my single belt buckle. The difference is that the belt buckle is near the center of the area and the clips are all located at the edges, nearer the uprights.
Even then, there is less metal in four suspender's clips that there is my single belt buckle. The difference is that the belt buckle is near the center of the area and the clips are all located at the edges, nearer the uprights.
Was that with a WTMD or Scanner?
If it was WTMD, it was because the two buckles at the same position on opposite sides of the body created a tangent and appeared as a larger metal mass to the WTMD than was actually present. In most cases, when one side was unclipped or removed from one side and thrown over a shoulder, the tangent went away. If the buckles were large, the WTMD would still alarm.
If it was a scanner, I have no idea why one side should be unclipped.
If it was WTMD, it was because the two buckles at the same position on opposite sides of the body created a tangent and appeared as a larger metal mass to the WTMD than was actually present. In most cases, when one side was unclipped or removed from one side and thrown over a shoulder, the tangent went away. If the buckles were large, the WTMD would still alarm.
If it was a scanner, I have no idea why one side should be unclipped.
Apr 12, 2013, 3:12 pm
#25
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The WTMD doesn't provide an indication as to where the metal is? I haven't paid that much attention to the TSA's but most of the ones I've seen have lights along the side that show the height of the metal.
Apr 12, 2013, 6:45 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2010
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At PDX a few days ago, I saw a number of folks insisting on leaving their belts on to go through the MMW there. The clerks shrugged. On the other side of this, I hung around and watched a lot of those same people get flagged by the machine for the belts.
Apr 13, 2013, 7:34 am
#27
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As I remember it the conversation was about both. Someone asked if suspenders would be OK. The TSO that was in on the conversation said that suspenders would not have to be removed for either, but it might help to unclip one side for the WTMD for exactly the reason you mentioned.
Even then, there is less metal in four suspender's clips that there is my single belt buckle. The difference is that the belt buckle is near the center of the area and the clips are all located at the edges, nearer the uprights.
Even then, there is less metal in four suspender's clips that there is my single belt buckle. The difference is that the belt buckle is near the center of the area and the clips are all located at the edges, nearer the uprights.
Marginally related, but potentially useful semi-speculation.
After I complained recently to a 3 striper at (airport name withheld to block the nefarious terrorists) that the post MMW groper had groped my left armpit when it was my right armpit that had alarmed, he told me, unprompted, that alarms in the pocket area had to be patted down on both sides of the "target" by procedure.
Those of us above pizza box hiring criteria intellect level will recognize that is likely because this alarm would be at the edge of the MMW scan area, beyond which, the scope is blind, as shown in many previous postings. The software may be inaccurate for mapping alarms in that area. This would align a little with the desire to remove one suspender clip from this boundary area.
Seems to me that the inability to effectively use the scopes shows another advantage of the WTMD, it's digital (Alarm? Yes/No) which caters better to the pizza box job seekers who cannot tell left from right. Real shame we spent all that treasure on scanners.
Apr 13, 2013, 7:44 am
#28
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It will be interesting to see which screeners then opt out.
Apr 13, 2013, 11:42 am
#30
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" ... before they will start the pat down after an opt out"
Why do they "need" to be removed if you're not opting out?
"... easier for everyone if the pax remove their belts when they are told" I'm sure it would be easier for everyone (the universe, which, defined by TSA, is only TSA) if we believe the TSA on everything we're told without question. Glad I'm not wired that way, and I know my function is not to make anything easier for TSA.
