Pup7

The concern and the outrage is it's disgusting that DHS deems me a criminal for simply buying a plane ticket and I get subjected to full security theater honors and a scrubbing down at USCIS/ICE/whatever the hell they are this week's checkpoints and yet a relatively unknown Saudi gets GE and trusted traveler status and breezes right on through.

Oh - and my passport is marked up with Saudi Visas and other lovely stuff in Arabic numerals on the back (Saudi sponsors routinely put a big sticker on the back of your passport so they can identify their folks in the big pile at the passport office), so I promise you that's always why I get pulled aside for secondary screening at passport control, though I'm as WASPy as a female can get in appearance and my secondary ID identifies me as an active duty military officer. Or that my mother gets a shakedown at TSA checkpoints because she has an artificial knee, but she's 78 years old and has never even had a traffic ticket. Or my British citizen husband, here on a valid green card, gets all sorts of secondary questioning at Immigration, probably also related to all of his Saudi visas (even though he was working for the American government while we lived there and is as blond and blue eyed as I am, possibly even more so!). Or that any average Joe American citizen - or any other average Joe, for that matter - gets a shakedown in and out of TSA/Customs/whatever checkpoint you mention just because they bought a plane ticket.

So yeah, it torques me up. Just a bit.

GUWonder

That kind of stuff that happens to you and your family at airports happens to Saudi citizens in or on the way to the US too.

From what I've seen at IAD, getting behind a line/plane of people from Saudi Arabia is a lesson in expectation-setting for delayed times to process each passenger. The faster the CBP processes Saudis on arrival at US POEs, the faster other visitors (and even some US citizens) will get admitted into the US. Sounds like a great thing possibly, until realizing that DHS is running the show and messed up outcomes from messing around with people is well within their arrivals processing picture.

RadioGirl

Why not "the faster the CBP processes Australians, Japanese, Brazilians, French, Swiss, Brits, [180 other countries here], the faster everyone will get admitted into the US..."? @:-) Maybe the answer is to stop being so inefficient and difficult to everyone?
Well, and there's that.

GUWonder

As I said in an earlier post, this facility should be made open to all and be free and automatic for all persons "innocent enough" to travel to/from/within the US. I never fancied any governmental approach that ranks innocent passengers as more or less innocent than others. Unfortunately we are far away from that happening.

The number of Saudi citizens traveling to the US is considered manageable in a phased expansion to cover more countries. Given Saudi Arabia is not on the VWP list and the expansion even with regard to Saudi citizens will be very restricted, the concern about someone "slipping through", perhaps even like the EDL leader, using a UK or other VWP country's passport is of a different level of concern. You can pretty much bet and win that the proportion of Saudi citizens who get GE type status for processing in the US will be far smaller than it is for the proportion of various NATO member countries once the facility is scaled up.

Pup7

I'm not sure what the first sentence of your post actually means, but they're not CITIZENS of this country. I am. My mother is. We always have been. And supposedly they've got more than enough information on my husband to prove he's not a risk or they wouldn't have cut him a green card in the first place. What's stuck on the back of my passport shouldn't do anything except perhaps spawn a question about what I was doing there. Usually it becomes a ten minute shakedown. I left that place nine years ago. It's old news. And oh, I have a military ID, Mr. Customs Agent, with a current security clearance (possibly at a higher level than the guy grilling me!), so just perhaps I'm in the all clear because I've already answered these questions ad nauseum, and in greater detail that what you're currently demanding of me, as I stand here doing the pee dance because I've already been in line for an hour?

The non-citizen Saudis aren't even in the same line as me at any US checkpoint, for obvious reasons. They're not even in the same line as my husband if he's traveling with me - so their processing time doesn't matter. It doesn't hold me up.

The bottom line is NO ONE should be hassled at US Customs unless there's a reason for further scrutiny, regardless of nationality - but I would naturally expect a non-citizen's processing to take longer than mine anyway, just as I expect it to take longer for me to clear immigration when entering the UK or wherever because I'm not a passport-holding citizen of that nation. (That just seems logical to me. I don't expect to be hassled but it certainly stands to reason that there are questions I need to be asked as a visitor that would be irrelevant to citizens. That's why I HOOF IT when I get off a plane in the UK and I'm by myself - I want to be ahead of as many 'foreigners' on that flight as possible because the line is going to be slow! If I'm with Mr. Pup7 it doesn't matter because I can go through the EU line with him.)

And I'm with RadioGirl - what is so special about Saudi Arabia, other than the obvious? Why not other nations with whom we have a tighter alliance? I could wax political but I won't for obvious reasons - this just ain't the forum for that branch of this discussion - but I'll stick with my suspicions. Because it makes absolutely no sense to not extend this to VWP nations before KSA, who allows no one in their country - including Americans - except by invitation.

I'm not worried about anyone 'slipping through'. People will slip through if they want to slip through regardless of how many barriers you put in their way. I'm infuriated by the obvious political nature of the whole thing. I seriously think any discussion of traffic levels is smoke and mirrors, because the number of say, Aussies that would possibly qualify is LOWER than the number of Americans eligible (I'm speculating based on population) and even lower than that would be the number of Aussies who would actually use it in the first place. Or Brits. Or Japanese - or, for that matter, ANYONE.

I say again - SAUDI ARABIA??

Wow, I'm really annoyed by this...

GUWonder

Sometimes visiting Saudi citizens are in the non-visitor lines because they are members of the same household as a US person resident in the US. As a practical matter, US citizens in line behind them at a CBP controlled area may not even always be aware of the citizenship of the persons slowing down the line even in a line designated for US citizens. Speeding up the Saudi citizens in front of me at IAD will decrease the delays I face as a US citizen arriving into the US at IAD.

Saudi Arabia is just another country whose citizens will get some kind of USG favors on arrival to the US. Nothing worth getting upset about as a practical matter ... at least IMO. Sure, I would prefer other countries with far more visitors to the US were all to be allowed to use GE kind of facilities as that would help speed up things even more -- way more at that. Here's to hoping that the paranoia about Saudis being reduced in part comes with reduced paranoia about others too that speeds up things for everyone at a US CBP controlled area.

Pup7

I would submit that those numbers nationwide are much smaller than the number of Brits in line in front of you. Or Canadians. Or Aussies. I've been in entire lines comprised of Saudia passengers landing in the US at JFK from RUH (747 and 777) and have seen possibly ten people in line in front of me in the US citizen line that are obviously not Westerners and are holding green passports (KSA citizens), but the non-citizen line is full of Saudis. In contrast, I've gotten off the plane at DFW with an entire AA or BA flight from LHR and had tons of Brits in line in front of me at immigration. Multiple times.

And I don't care about their immigration status if they're married to an American. That's not the point. I know about that sort of stuff from personal experience. My point is there aren't that many of them bouncing in and out of this country to start with when you compare them to VWP citizens. If I were a VWP nation, I'd be highly insulted and would seriously consider pulling out - which, after hearing about this, is what my British husband said his country ought to do, and I agree with him, even though that would obviously create problems under my own roof.

Pup7

I assure you I'm not paranoid. I lived there - in the thick of 9/11, during the start of the Afghan invasion, and during the start of the extremely unpopular Iraq war, I lived there. I have friends who still live there and I have Saudi friends who live there because family ties keep them there. Like citizens of other countries who rail about the US and despise her but are kind and friendly to her people, the problem isn't with the Saudis themselves. It's the US's potential hidden reasoning/motives/whatever you want to call it behind this.

Manipulative politics pisses me off. I don't care who's involved.

And I maintain there are far more VWP citizens moving in and out of the US than Saudis on a daily basis. This is not about volume, and my ire isn't driven by paranoia or terrorism or whatever other reasons you seem to be implying. I'm a bit more advanced and far more savvy than that.

And not every single person you see in chador or abayya or even thobe and ghutra is Saudi.

GUWonder

My posts were not about you.

Pup7

Then I apologize for my zeal because it did seem that way.

ESpen36

There are three good reasons for giving Saudi visitors (who, aside from the occasional F-1 student, are probably mostly business travelers and influential oligarchs) special treatment at US ports of entry:

1) Oil
2) Oil
3) Oil!!!!!


IMHO, this policy has nothing to do with the traveling public. Rather, it is a geopolitical/strategic policy that is all about cultivating good relations with a country that, for better or worse, is largely responsible for keeping the American economy and lifestyle afloat. If the mom in Ohio wants to know how she manages to keep her Chevy Suburban rocking to/from the soccer games, look no farther than Saudi Arabia.

GUWonder

The peddler of this whole story is the infamous Steve Emerson, a person who makes his living off peddling paranoia by smearing large groups which include mostly innocent people. He ought to get another gig with DHS/TSA as it suits him so well and is so fitting for them given their history.

CZBB

#1 supplier of oil to the United States: CANADA

Perhaps the US could start by treating Canadians better, like say not requiring fingerprints at air/sea borders? Actually putting enough staff at the borders? Or my favourite, putting border guards (inside Canada at YVR) who are unaware what a 'province' is.

Hyperacusis

To reiterate what others here have already said: The Saudi nationals going through the GE process will first need to acquire a US visa. A process which, I assure you, is NOT an easy one, especially for a Mideast citizen.

Once that Saudi national has successfully acquired a visa, he/she will then be likely required to go through a significant amount of additional screening for GE. And I can almost guarantee you that the GE interview will not be nearly as easy as it was for us US-citizens/residents. I suspect the reject rate for the program will be fairly high.

Why would the US prioritize a non-VWP Mideast country over, say, Australia (already a GE partner)? I have no clue. Leaving aside the oil-related theories above, it could be any number of things: logistically easier because of the small applicant/member pool, more access to background information on various Saudi nationals, a pilot program of some sort before expanding to other such countries, a token gesture to improve ties with the government (see above regarding likely high reject rates and visa processes), or free hummus.

My point is this: In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. The Saudi nationals cleared for GE will likely be 'safer' for the US than the average walkup ESTA/VWP person. And there will be very few of them. It will not affect you, except maybe in the form of ever so slightly shorter visitors lines. Unless of course you're a visitor from a non-GE VWP European country who feels outraged that THOSE PEOPLE get to use GE while you don't.

Ari

The response seems to be more of an emotional response than one grounded in factual analysis of risk.