Can TSA officers carry guns on duty?

Old Oct 5, 2012, 5:59 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Perhaps I have been misinformed but I thought some, but not all, TSI's did have LEO status .
Negitive. I know for a fact that TSI's don't have LEO Status.

And nothing "SSI" about it....all one has to do is go over to USAJOBs and look under 1801 series for the jobs. Nothing at all on there about LEO Status, carrying weapons, or Lautenburg Amendment....

Plus, I worked for the FAMS in their OP Center for 2 years and know they don't carry.

Only ones under TSA that carry are FAMS and OIG. That's it.

If a TSO carried on-duty and was seen.....local LEOs would be called, they would be disarmed, arrested, and carted off to jail.....and fired.
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 6:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Bearcat06
Bingo....

TSA/DHS will not allow TSO to carry due to it not being a LEO job....

Further, there are policies in place like all federal agencies (and lots of employers) stating they can't carry and they will be dealt with accordingly if they get caught.
+1

If its not actual Federal Property then there is only local and state laws that would prevent. TSA has a policy forbidding the carry of a firearm by non-LEO personnel while on duty.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 3:13 am
  #33  
 
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What checkpoint at PHX?

What time?

Can you describe the TSO?
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 1:06 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by N965VJ
It was a TSI that damaged all those aircraft in MDW four years ago when they used the pitot tubes and AOA vanes as a jungle gym to climb aboard. The thought of someone like that being issued a firearm is downright scary.
ORD.

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-08-20/t...r?_s=PM:TRAVEL
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 1:38 pm
  #35  
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Transportation Security Officers, are officers because that is the title and designation provided by OPM. This fact does not make them "law enforcement officers" just as the fact that a title does not include the word, "officer" does not mean that the individual is not a "law enforcement officer" (Special Agent being the most common designation for a federal law enforcement officer).

Hopefully this tired old debate can end as it's just plain wrong. Yes, they are "officers" and yes, they are not "law enforcement officers."

Next.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 3:00 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by StanSimmons
First, no one (except LEO's or Military on duty, and a very limited group of others such as specific pilots with government issued handguns) is allowed in the secured area of any commercial airport with a firearm.
When you say "Military on duty", what are you referring to? Are you talking about back after 9/11 when there were National Guardsmen at some airports? Even then, they were not locked and loaded, and I'm pretty sure that the National Guard is no longer permitted to work security at an airport checkpoint. I believe that was temporary legislation passed in a hurry after 9/11 that is gone. At least in practice, since I haven't seen a Guardsman at an airport since 2002. Active duty military and reservists were never allowed to work security at airports, due to the Posse Comitatus Act. National Guards, being state entities, could.

If you're referring to active-duty military traveling as passengers, they can't carry weapons into the "sterile area" or on a plane any more than I can.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 3:05 pm
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Originally Posted by Bearcat06
Negitive. I know for a fact that TSI's don't have LEO Status.

And nothing "SSI" about it....all one has to do is go over to USAJOBs and look under 1801 series for the jobs. Nothing at all on there about LEO Status, carrying weapons, or Lautenburg Amendment....

Plus, I worked for the FAMS in their OP Center for 2 years and know they don't carry.

Only ones under TSA that carry are FAMS and OIG. That's it.

If a TSO carried on-duty and was seen.....local LEOs would be called, they would be disarmed, arrested, and carted off to jail.....and fired.
You mean not fired like Alvin Crabtree at DEN.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 5:34 pm
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Originally Posted by catocony
When you say "Military on duty", what are you referring to? Are you talking about back after 9/11 when there were National Guardsmen at some airports? Even then, they were not locked and loaded, and I'm pretty sure that the National Guard is no longer permitted to work security at an airport checkpoint. I believe that was temporary legislation passed in a hurry after 9/11 that is gone. At least in practice, since I haven't seen a Guardsman at an airport since 2002. Active duty military and reservists were never allowed to work security at airports, due to the Posse Comitatus Act. National Guards, being state entities, could.

If you're referring to active-duty military traveling as passengers, they can't carry weapons into the "sterile area" or on a plane any more than I can.
It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. The last time I saw it was a couple of years ago when I saw an armed military officer at a commercial airport, he and a partner were transporting a military prisoner.

http://www.apd.army.mil/jw2/xmldemo/r190_14/main.asp
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 10:21 am
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Originally Posted by cbn42
I overheard a conversation at PHX where a TSO suggested that he carries a gun while on duty, although I didn't get the full context so I'm not positive.

Based on my research, Arizona is apparently one of the few states that allows anyone to carry a concealed weapon in public, without the need to apply for a permit from the sheriff like in other states. So with that said, is there anything stopping a TSA agent from carrying a concealed handgun while screening passengers?
AZ does NOT allow someone to carry a concealed weapon without a permit. AZ is an open carry state, you can carry a weapon without a permit if it is openly displayed - like on a holster on your belt. NV is the same. There are prohibitions against carrying a weapon (concealed or not) into certain buildings - schools, courthouses, and airports. An exception is made for a weapon that is going to be checked as luggage.

Last edited by essxjay; Oct 7, 2012 at 9:04 pm Reason: off topic
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 10:42 am
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Originally Posted by StanSimmons
It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. The last time I saw it was a couple of years ago when I saw an armed military officer at a commercial airport, he and a partner were transporting a military prisoner.

http://www.apd.army.mil/jw2/xmldemo/r190_14/main.asp
Ok, but they are LEOs in their capacity as military police. They would be permitted to carry firearms if acting in their capacity as a LEO while traveling.

That's a very small subset of the military, though. The point from the previous poster that I clarified was that the military, in general, are treated just like you and me when it comes to weapons on planes and/or into a sterile area. Private Trailerpark can't carry a gun on the plane just because he signed up with the Army.
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 6:54 pm
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Originally Posted by N965VJ
The pilots (FFDOs) have to keep their firearm locked in a dangerous TSA-designed holster (that was the root cause of the negligent discharge on a US flight several years ago) anytime they are in a place other than the cockpit. Never mind that they have final authority for anything that happens aboard the aircraft, not just the cockpit. The individual FFDOs are not issued firearms, they bear the cost of what the TSA approves. Every now and then there is a sale
I'm not sure where you get your information, but, the holster is made by Desantis. I've secured my weapon numerous times in the same manner as an FFDO and have never had a negligent discharge. To blame tho holster is the same as blaming a car for an accident. You have to account for human error.
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 11:19 pm
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Originally Posted by puddinhead
AZ does NOT allow someone to carry a concealed weapon without a permit. AZ is an open carry state, you can carry a weapon without a permit if it is openly displayed - like on a holster on your belt. NV is the same. There are prohibitions against carrying a weapon (concealed or not) into certain buildings - schools, courthouses, and airports. An exception is made for a weapon that is going to be checked as luggage.
Arizona changed the law in 2010 to generally allow concealed carry without a permit for those 21+ years of age, not a prohibited possessor, no intent to commit a crime, etc.
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Old Oct 8, 2012, 12:07 am
  #43  
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We've removed a number of off topic posts. This discussion is specifically about TSOs carrying while working a c/p. If some of you would like to take up tangential points please start a thread in OMNI/PR, which frankly could probably use a change of pace.

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Old Oct 8, 2012, 12:12 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by catocony
Even then, they were not locked and loaded

The ones at MCI were.....

Originally Posted by catocony
I'm pretty sure that the National Guard is no longer permitted to work security at an airport checkpoint.
The ones at MCI worked there (along with the Missouri State Highway Patrol and the Airport LEOs) based on a Governor order. If Jay (Current MO Gov) wanted them to be there....he could certainly call them up and do it.


Originally Posted by catocony
If you're referring to active-duty military traveling as passengers, they can't carry weapons into the "sterile area" or on a plane any more than I can.
Yes they can in certain circumstances.
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Old Oct 8, 2012, 12:14 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by essxjay
We've removed a number of off topic posts. This discussion is specifically about TSOs carrying while working a c/p. If some of you would like to take up tangential points please start a thread in OMNI/PR, which frankly could probably use a change of pace.

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essxjay
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Thanks for bringing it back on topic.

So far, everyone seems to agree that TSAs cannot carry personal guns on duty, but no one has cited any federal or state law or regulation that prevents them from doing so. Anyone have a specific reference? I know it would probably be common sense, but it has to be somewhere.
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