Do Our Gadgets Really Threaten Planes?

Old Sep 10, 2012, 7:12 pm
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Do Our Gadgets Really Threaten Planes?

Mod feel free to move if this belongs in the other Safety forum.

Nice to finally see a WSJ piece dismissing the nonsense about in-flight use of electronic devices. Too bad the FAA doesn't care...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read

WAS ALEC BALDWIN RIGHT? When the actor tussled with American Airlines personnel last December over his desire to continue playing a game on his phone during takeoff, he was evicted from the flight. Defying airline safety rules is not a good idea, but was Baldwin perhaps correct not to take the danger seriously?

On Aug. 31, the Federal Aviation Administration requested public comment on its longstanding policy of prohibiting the use of personal electronics during takeoffs and landings. The restrictions date back to 1991 and were motivated in part by anecdotal reports from pilots and flight crews that electronic devices affected an airliner's navigation equipment or disrupted communication between the cockpit and the ground. Over the years, however, Boeing has been unable to duplicate these problems, and the FAA can only say that the devices' radio signals "may" interfere with flight operations.

To gather some empirical evidence on this question, we recently conducted an online survey of 492 American adults who have flown in the past year. In this sample, 40% said they did not turn their phones off completely during takeoff and landing on their most recent flight; more than 7% left their phones on, with the Wi-Fi and cellular communications functions active. And 2% pulled a full Baldwin, actively using their phones when they weren't supposed to.

Last edited by essxjay; Sep 11, 2012 at 9:28 pm Reason: trimmed for respect to copyrights
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 8:00 pm
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This has been discussed in numerous other threads. The author of this article clearly has no knowlege of what aviation certification procedures involve, for either hardware or software (hint: software certification for aviation costs hundreds of millions of dollars).
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 10:29 pm
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Passengers' flights are more threatened by the TSA: "D Y W T F T?".

Passenger cell phones and laptops have probably been left on or used in flight on most all commercial passenger airline planes -- without dangerous incident.
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 11:53 pm
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Originally Posted by RichardKenner
This has been discussed in numerous other threads. The author of this article clearly has no knowlege of what aviation certification procedures involve, for either hardware or software (hint: software certification for aviation costs hundreds of millions of dollars).
Ok, since it's impossible to certify that the hardware will be 100% problem free from ANY form of electromagnetic radiation whatsoever, it's time to declare a complete radio quiet zone under and along the flight path of any and all aerial vehicles. Anyone caught emitting any kind of radiation that might potentially intercept the flight's path at any time will be charged with threatening the safety of our airways.
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 6:36 pm
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It's evolved from 6-watt cell phones in the 90's coinciding with unexplained flight deck equipment anomalies to obedience. The simple reason for no electronics now is to get passengers to be less distracted on take off and landing.
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 8:12 pm
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Originally Posted by Ysitincoach
The simple reason for no electronics now is to get passengers to be less distracted on take off and landing.
I never understood this one, since we've been able to use devices of mass distraction such as 'books' or 'magazines' since passenger flight began - they even give us the magazines (unless the magazine has been certified too boring to be distracting?)

Last edited by quick_dry; Sep 12, 2012 at 7:25 pm
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 1:17 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Passenger cell phones and laptops have probably been left on or used in flight on most all commercial passenger airline planes -- without dangerous incident.
While I agree that a ban on electronics is probably overreacting, I've always had a problem with that argument.


It's like saying, "I've crossed the street without looking 100 times and not gotten hit by a car, so it must never happen!"
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 1:25 am
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.....

Last edited by angatol; Mar 1, 2015 at 1:44 am
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 8:35 pm
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Originally Posted by angatol
I think it's more like "I've crossed the street 400 billion times without looking and not gotten hit by a car"...
Yep, and also noting that millions of others did the same thing.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:38 am
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A few pilots over in the United forum have stated it this way*, which I can respect.

While there has been no proof or evidence of a consumer electronic device being inherently dangerous to the operation of flight, I am not a test pilot.

*summary only

While I wholeheartedly agree that there probably is no risk to safety or flight ops, I cannot dispute the desires of pilots to not want to be test cases, let alone on fully loaded passenger aircraft.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 11:44 am
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None of this matters. If a person can't get his nose out of his phone or Ipad for fifteen or twenty minutes during take-off and landing, he has deeper problems.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 12:22 pm
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Originally Posted by Houston.Business
None of this matters. If a person can't get his nose out of his phone or Ipad for fifteen or twenty minutes during take-off and landing, he has deeper problems.
Despite your moniker, it appears you have no understanding of how business is conducted and the necessity for urgent communication. And IMO it is not so much the ban on telephone calls (which might interfere with someone's ability to pay attention to safety announcements and instructions) but rather cutting off access to email and text. As others have noted, typing an email or text is no more distracting that reading a newspaper.

And it is also a real issue for young children who often have trouble sitting still for long periods absent entertainment (spare the lecture on how we all survived without these things). Remember they can't put down the tray tables to use coloring books while waiting in line on the runway.

The rule is stupid and has no basis in science (as verified by this story). If safety is the issue then the rule should be narrowly tailored to address those concerns instead of inconveniencing passengers with a dishonest pretense.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 1:48 pm
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Originally Posted by Boraxo
Despite your moniker, it appears you have no understanding of how business is conducted and the necessity for urgent communication. And IMO it is not so much the ban on telephone calls (which might interfere with someone's ability to pay attention to safety announcements and instructions) but rather cutting off access to email and text.
If someone is so indispensable that they cannot be out of email contact for 10-15 minutes at the beginning and end of a flight then they should take the train.
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Old Sep 13, 2012, 2:06 pm
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We're losing sight of the issue, folks.

What purpose does the ban on electronics during takeoff and landing serve? From over here in the cheap seats, I see mainly two arguments put forth:
  1. Fewer distractions for passengers during critical flight phases, in case of emergencies.
  2. Reducing the possibility of interference with the aircraft's control systems.

To point (1): as others have pointed out, all the ban does is substitute one form of distraction for another. I can still bury my nose in a book or in my Sudoku puzzle (that was helpfully provided for me BY THE AIRLINE ON MY BOARDING PASS) and be just as distracted as if I was playing Angry Birds.

To point (2): the FAA has taken the historic stance that any technology not explicitly proven safe is potentially dangerous and therefore forbidden from use at critical moments. Most electronic devices are thereby excluded --- not because they're dangerous, but because they haven't been proven to be safe. The original article (and others like it) are calling for a re-examination of this policy; anecdotal evidence of everyone who forgets to turn off their cellphone in flight, plus advances in aircraft technology, might make the ban unnecessary.

Side arguments like "gee, are you so addicted to your CrackBerry that you can't turn it off for 10 minutes?" are beside the point. Bans that serve no useful purpose aren't worth keeping. They unnecessarily deprive passengers of work or entertainment options, and the enforcement of the rule by flight crews distracts them from other duties.

Otherwise, I suppose we could go back to the post-Underwear-Bomber rules that said that passengers had to sit up straight in their chairs for the last hour of the flight doing absolutely nothing. Just one step towards making "Con Air" a commercial reality.
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Old Sep 14, 2012, 2:42 pm
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Originally Posted by FearFree
A few pilots over in the United forum have stated it this way*, which I can respect.

While there has been no proof or evidence of a consumer electronic device being inherently dangerous to the operation of flight, I am not a test pilot.

*summary only

While I wholeheartedly agree that there probably is no risk to safety or flight ops, I cannot dispute the desires of pilots to not want to be test cases, let alone on fully loaded passenger aircraft.
So would they think that the AA pilots who will be usings iPads for their flight manuals are taking a huge risk?
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