2012 Survey: How Effective is the Transportation Security Administration?
#46
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Liverpool, but MAN is my home airport. Because Liverpool Airport sucks (beyond the name John Lennon.."Above us only sky...")
Programs: DM
Posts: 3
My experience is that it is a place by place thing. I fly into the ATL a lot (from MAN, my home airport) and generally, it isn't as bad as I expect it to be. They yell a lot (which leads me to believe that some of the TSA eggheads believe that yelling English makes non-English speakers better understand English) but overall, it's not terrible. Thats how I would describe it: it tends not to be as bad as I expect it to be, particularly when you are faced with large crowds.
Some places are always terrible, in my opinion: JFK, EWR, PHL but those are not particularly good airports anyway. The TSA is simply maintaining the already low standards.
On the other hand, LAS has always been fine with me, and I inevitably fly through CVG, and they are great...largely because that airport is a ghost town these days. It's kind of sad.
On the international side, CDG is a joke, and so is the security there. the UK, which I love (and where I live) has airports so bad they are a national joke. How a world-class city like London could have such a collection of awful airports is beyond me. BRU is not bad....AMS is a great airport with at times awkward but not impolite security.
The worst in my experience (other than Baku, where I had to pay a bribe) are both Moscow airports, but they are bad at everything. The best is SIN, by far, but Changi is the best airport in the world, in my opinion. And China can be a little weird and very arbitrary.
Anyway...good airports tend to get security right, bad airports don't. That's how I see it. As to the efficacy of the whole thing, I just stopped thinking about that long ago. The TSA has an impossible task that they do for the most part reasonably well. The comparisons to Israel are just not reasonable to mel; Israel has such unfortunate security needs that it's difficult to draw many lessons there.
Some places are always terrible, in my opinion: JFK, EWR, PHL but those are not particularly good airports anyway. The TSA is simply maintaining the already low standards.
On the other hand, LAS has always been fine with me, and I inevitably fly through CVG, and they are great...largely because that airport is a ghost town these days. It's kind of sad.
On the international side, CDG is a joke, and so is the security there. the UK, which I love (and where I live) has airports so bad they are a national joke. How a world-class city like London could have such a collection of awful airports is beyond me. BRU is not bad....AMS is a great airport with at times awkward but not impolite security.
The worst in my experience (other than Baku, where I had to pay a bribe) are both Moscow airports, but they are bad at everything. The best is SIN, by far, but Changi is the best airport in the world, in my opinion. And China can be a little weird and very arbitrary.
Anyway...good airports tend to get security right, bad airports don't. That's how I see it. As to the efficacy of the whole thing, I just stopped thinking about that long ago. The TSA has an impossible task that they do for the most part reasonably well. The comparisons to Israel are just not reasonable to mel; Israel has such unfortunate security needs that it's difficult to draw many lessons there.
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,113
Good post, Sir. ^
And, when discussing Israeli procedures, I assume they don't have quite the same passenger load to contend with as the USA? And I suspect their employees are rather more committed to the security way of thinking, given their experiences over the last half-century or so?
And, when discussing Israeli procedures, I assume they don't have quite the same passenger load to contend with as the USA? And I suspect their employees are rather more committed to the security way of thinking, given their experiences over the last half-century or so?
#48
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater
The TSA doesn't actually make us safer, but it makes it feel safer. Also, it wastes money.
The TSA doesn't actually make us safer, but it makes it feel safer. Also, it wastes money.
#49
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater
The TSA doesn't actually make us safer; it just makes us feel safer. Also its a colossal waste of resources.
The TSA doesn't actually make us safer; it just makes us feel safer. Also its a colossal waste of resources.
#50
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YXY
Posts: 3,501
[QUOTE=dumbinic;19127092 The TSA doesn't actually make us safer; it just makes us feel safer.[/QUOTE]
How so? Sounds like saying that a lot of police on the street makes you feel safe.
Obviously, if a strong police presence is necessary, it must be a very unsafe place/situation.
How so? Sounds like saying that a lot of police on the street makes you feel safe.
Obviously, if a strong police presence is necessary, it must be a very unsafe place/situation.
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,113
So good he had to say it twice …
But but but … "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. No cleanup reason has been specified. Please help improve this article if you can. (January 2009)". Not perhaps the greatest reference for the case.
There is little doubt in my mind that terrorism, in whatever form you choose to define it, has had a fiscal impact across the World. Nor will I deny that some of the dancing around at Airports and Borders that we are ALL subjected to has a questionable impact.
Nevertheless, I have no fear of flying: I know that "things are being done" here, there and everywhere. Whether TSA is a major contributor to that safe feeling, I am not qualified to quantify. Criticising TSA may, indeed, become an Olympic Sport in the future, given the fixation so many US Citizens seem to have with it … perhaps with Baseball, to appease the Media companies?
Personal Note: We flew UK>USA on 24 Sep 01. 9/24, if you must. The BA 744 to IAD was less than half-full, and for the next few weeks around DC people were amazed that we had risked flying to the US at all. How sad.
Suggestion: Grow balls: it's infinitely better than Blogging or writing to your Congressman. Then you just get on with life. It's not that difficult, even for this Senior Citizen. But then the UK doesn't have a written Constitution, giving me 38,284 things to complain about … I just get on with life, or at least what little remains to me.
But but but … "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. No cleanup reason has been specified. Please help improve this article if you can. (January 2009)". Not perhaps the greatest reference for the case.
There is little doubt in my mind that terrorism, in whatever form you choose to define it, has had a fiscal impact across the World. Nor will I deny that some of the dancing around at Airports and Borders that we are ALL subjected to has a questionable impact.
Nevertheless, I have no fear of flying: I know that "things are being done" here, there and everywhere. Whether TSA is a major contributor to that safe feeling, I am not qualified to quantify. Criticising TSA may, indeed, become an Olympic Sport in the future, given the fixation so many US Citizens seem to have with it … perhaps with Baseball, to appease the Media companies?
Personal Note: We flew UK>USA on 24 Sep 01. 9/24, if you must. The BA 744 to IAD was less than half-full, and for the next few weeks around DC people were amazed that we had risked flying to the US at all. How sad.
Suggestion: Grow balls: it's infinitely better than Blogging or writing to your Congressman. Then you just get on with life. It's not that difficult, even for this Senior Citizen. But then the UK doesn't have a written Constitution, giving me 38,284 things to complain about … I just get on with life, or at least what little remains to me.
#52
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MAN/BHX
Programs: ABBA
Posts: 6,027
How a world-class city like London could have such a collection of awful airports is beyond me. BRU is not bad
Every time I go through BRU I seem to run into a 15 minute queue.
The worst in my experience (other than Baku, where I had to pay a bribe) are both Moscow airports
ISB and DEL are the worst international airports I've been to.
#53
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,937
So good he had to say it twice …
But but but … "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. No cleanup reason has been specified. Please help improve this article if you can. (January 2009)". Not perhaps the greatest reference for the case.
There is little doubt in my mind that terrorism, in whatever form you choose to define it, has had a fiscal impact across the World. Nor will I deny that some of the dancing around at Airports and Borders that we are ALL subjected to has a questionable impact.
Nevertheless, I have no fear of flying: I know that "things are being done" here, there and everywhere. Whether TSA is a major contributor to that safe feeling, I am not qualified to quantify. Criticising TSA may, indeed, become an Olympic Sport in the future, given the fixation so many US Citizens seem to have with it … perhaps with Baseball, to appease the Media companies?
Personal Note: We flew UK>USA on 24 Sep 01. 9/24, if you must. The BA 744 to IAD was less than half-full, and for the next few weeks around DC people were amazed that we had risked flying to the US at all. How sad.
Suggestion: Grow balls: it's infinitely better than Blogging or writing to your Congressman. Then you just get on with life. It's not that difficult, even for this Senior Citizen. But then the UK doesn't have a written Constitution, giving me 38,284 things to complain about … I just get on with life, or at least what little remains to me.
But but but … "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. No cleanup reason has been specified. Please help improve this article if you can. (January 2009)". Not perhaps the greatest reference for the case.
There is little doubt in my mind that terrorism, in whatever form you choose to define it, has had a fiscal impact across the World. Nor will I deny that some of the dancing around at Airports and Borders that we are ALL subjected to has a questionable impact.
Nevertheless, I have no fear of flying: I know that "things are being done" here, there and everywhere. Whether TSA is a major contributor to that safe feeling, I am not qualified to quantify. Criticising TSA may, indeed, become an Olympic Sport in the future, given the fixation so many US Citizens seem to have with it … perhaps with Baseball, to appease the Media companies?
Personal Note: We flew UK>USA on 24 Sep 01. 9/24, if you must. The BA 744 to IAD was less than half-full, and for the next few weeks around DC people were amazed that we had risked flying to the US at all. How sad.
Suggestion: Grow balls: it's infinitely better than Blogging or writing to your Congressman. Then you just get on with life. It's not that difficult, even for this Senior Citizen. But then the UK doesn't have a written Constitution, giving me 38,284 things to complain about … I just get on with life, or at least what little remains to me.
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,113
Oh, well, we end up in the same position.
From the USA's POV, TSA is an enormous infringement of their freedoms, perpetrated by underpaid morons ith the skill-set of an amoeba.
I really must have an intense chat next month, when I'm "over there", with a friend who actually works for TSA. Oh, or is that DHS? No, that might be the other guy. We'll have some interesting chats ... Neither of them are hyper, just long-serving ex-Military professionals in a new career. I will accept that some TSA employees are further down the gene pool ... We have them in UK too. I suspect the pay-scale deters Masters graduates.
From the USA's POV, TSA is an enormous infringement of their freedoms, perpetrated by underpaid morons ith the skill-set of an amoeba.
I really must have an intense chat next month, when I'm "over there", with a friend who actually works for TSA. Oh, or is that DHS? No, that might be the other guy. We'll have some interesting chats ... Neither of them are hyper, just long-serving ex-Military professionals in a new career. I will accept that some TSA employees are further down the gene pool ... We have them in UK too. I suspect the pay-scale deters Masters graduates.
#55
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,937
Oh, well, we end up in the same position.
From the USA's POV, TSA is an enormous infringement of their freedoms, perpetrated by underpaid morons ith the skill-set of an amoeba.
I really must have an intense chat next month, when I'm "over there", with a friend who actually works for TSA. Oh, or is that DHS? No, that might be the other guy. We'll have some interesting chats ... Neither of them are hyper, just long-serving ex-Military professionals in a new career. I will accept that some TSA employees are further down the gene pool ... We have them in UK too. I suspect the pay-scale deters Masters graduates.
From the USA's POV, TSA is an enormous infringement of their freedoms, perpetrated by underpaid morons ith the skill-set of an amoeba.
I really must have an intense chat next month, when I'm "over there", with a friend who actually works for TSA. Oh, or is that DHS? No, that might be the other guy. We'll have some interesting chats ... Neither of them are hyper, just long-serving ex-Military professionals in a new career. I will accept that some TSA employees are further down the gene pool ... We have them in UK too. I suspect the pay-scale deters Masters graduates.
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,113
I'm not exactly sure where my bar-buddies work. One is certainly with TSA on the Tech side, the other is a 'man in black' so I don't ask too many questions: that would be inappropriate.
#57
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,028
Oh, well, we end up in the same position.
From the USA's POV, TSA is an enormous infringement of their freedoms, perpetrated by underpaid morons ith the skill-set of an amoeba.
I really must have an intense chat next month, when I'm "over there", with a friend who actually works for TSA. Oh, or is that DHS? No, that might be the other guy. We'll have some interesting chats ... Neither of them are hyper, just long-serving ex-Military professionals in a new career. I will accept that some TSA employees are further down the gene pool ... We have them in UK too. I suspect the pay-scale deters Masters graduates.
From the USA's POV, TSA is an enormous infringement of their freedoms, perpetrated by underpaid morons ith the skill-set of an amoeba.
I really must have an intense chat next month, when I'm "over there", with a friend who actually works for TSA. Oh, or is that DHS? No, that might be the other guy. We'll have some interesting chats ... Neither of them are hyper, just long-serving ex-Military professionals in a new career. I will accept that some TSA employees are further down the gene pool ... We have them in UK too. I suspect the pay-scale deters Masters graduates.
They didn't have courses in those subjects when I was in school. I suppose they assumed we had already mastered them by the time we got to kindergarten, if not sooner.
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,113
I thank my parents for that, but then I was lucky. I had two, one of each, and it was a Lonnng time ago