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Old Aug 8, 12, 10:32 am   #61
 
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Been thinking about this some more. It's very frustrating, there there seems to be no solution. Maybe there are no EASY solutions, but we can still do a hard one. What if the OP put together a list of expenses he incurred as a result of his wife's hospitalization and submitted it to the TSA as an invoice? He'd have to have a good attorney behind him, of course. I know, the TSA would laugh at it. What if several people did that? And copied the media? What about a class action?

It's just so wrong and so evil that innocent people have to submit to victimization by their government in order to "protect the nation". Since WE are the nation, it makes no sense - we're victimizing ourselves to protect ourselves? WTH? It MUST change. Somehow.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 10:33 am   #62
 
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Originally Posted by exbayern View Post
I believe that it may have to do with either being hardened to the job and lacking compassion or empathy, or interpreting the situation differently than the traveller. We've seen that here in past on FT.
That may be part of it, but another factor may be that there are a lot of other people like me. I would never, if it were humanly possible to avoid it, express my discomfort directly to the screener involved. I think most people posting here are all too aware that many, many screeners do not possess the demeanor and the professionalism to avoid retaliating against people who complain of hurt or injury during the grope.

It is also possible that the reason the poster's relatives are not seeing the complaints is because these two screeners are not sticking their fingers into women's vaginas, chopping men's testicles or busting people's medical devices. Perhaps they have somehow managed to avoid administering such aggressive gropes.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 10:38 am   #63
 
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Originally Posted by Carl Johnson View Post
Terrorists want screening to kept just as it is, or made worse.
I think the point was that it sounded like you meant the presence of TSA staff at a checkpoint was deterring a terrorist attack on the queue. The presence of armed LEOs nearby may be a deterrent. TSA staff can only attack back with harsh language, or flee, so there's no help to be found in that quarter.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 12:14 pm   #64
 
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Originally Posted by TheRoadie View Post
I think the point was that it sounded like you meant the presence of TSA staff at a checkpoint was deterring a terrorist attack on the queue. The presence of armed LEOs nearby may be a deterrent. TSA staff can only attack back with harsh language, or flee, so there's no help to be found in that quarter.
Well, I was happy to provide the clarification. I also went back to my previous post and changed "presence of the TSA deters attacks" to "existence of the TSA deters attacks."
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Old Aug 8, 12, 12:55 pm   #65
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Originally Posted by shoegal0107 View Post
I agree with you - I don't know what airport Rico's brother and wife work for, but in my last three trips through LAX and HNL I have seen a young woman crying, another woman visibly shaken, husbands getting angry at the TSA and an elderly woman complaining about the invasiveness of the search, plus an unpleasant experience of my own. I don't fly that often (anymore) but considering I'm not even at the checkpoint for that long, I find it hard to believe that someone working there all day has not heard any complaints!
(BOLDING ABOVE IS MINE

My wife does not travel by air with me any more for family visits, etc. I would not be able to stand there and watch one of those TSA "people" doing that assault on her; I'd be arrested.

My frequently used airline is losing thousands of dollars because my family does not fly any more. But the company's response to this is "oh well".
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Old Aug 8, 12, 2:59 pm   #66
 
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Originally Posted by jcwoman View Post
Been thinking about this some more. It's very frustrating, there there seems to be no solution. Maybe there are no EASY solutions, but we can still do a hard one. What if the OP put together a list of expenses he incurred as a result of his wife's hospitalization and submitted it to the TSA as an invoice? He'd have to have a good attorney behind him, of course. I know, the TSA would laugh at it. What if several people did that? And copied the media? What about a class action?

It's just so wrong and so evil that innocent people have to submit to victimization by their government in order to "protect the nation". Since WE are the nation, it makes no sense - we're victimizing ourselves to protect ourselves? WTH? It MUST change. Somehow.
Would he have better luck just taking them to Municipal "small claims" court and getting a sympathetic judge to rule in his favor for $3-5k depending on state.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 4:09 pm   #67
 
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Except that there's a significant risk of being caught unless the first TSO is bribable and that's hard. I think people on this forum tend to greatly underestimate the difficulty of implementing plots that rely on "insiders". Those are indeed viable if the opponent is a national intelligence service whose operators are trained in how to approach and select people. They learn how to do so in a way that won't cause suspicion and they also learn how to fit into a society. But it can take years to be successful in that sort of task because of the very real risk of being reported by people who aren't willing to cooperate, especially in this day and age. So they have to move very slowly, deliberately, and carefully.

I don't think that terrorist groups ever had that capability, but it's nearly impossible that they have it now given the focus on operations to degrade and track communications and money slow, both of which are essential to the success of any such long-term operation.
I think you're not using your imagination sufficiently. What do people do who are interested in acquiring illegal drugs? I suspect they sniff around obliquely, til some word of mouth points them in a successful direction. One could do the same thing wrt bribe-taking clerks. Yes, it's hard, but there are those who do smuggling and they can be found out. So what if some low level expendable or even an unwitting stooge thinking he was setting up a drug deal got burned. It would all be ascribed to drugs and nobody would be the wiser. You'd just move on to the next prospect.

You're making this sound a lot harder than it really is. And taking comfort where there is none.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 4:28 pm   #68
 
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Can't sue the feds this way, unfortunately (which is one reason why privatization is a good idea). She'd need to file an FTCA claim with the TSA and allow them 6 months to pay. If they don't (and they don't), the woman may sue in federal court.

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Originally Posted by Ysitincoach View Post
Would he have better luck just taking them to Municipal "small claims" court and getting a sympathetic judge to rule in his favor for $3-5k depending on state.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 5:34 pm   #69
 
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Originally Posted by brennandunn View Post
I was furious, but my wife wanted to just get out of the checkpoint and to our gate. She popped some pills and was hoping it would all go away... But it didn't. Once we got to our home airport, she vomited in the bathroom and asked me to take her to the ER.
I suspect her OD'ing on the pills is what caused her to go to the ER...

All pro/anti TSA arguments aside, since when did vomiting and stress mean rushing to the ER?

Did this really qualify as an EMERGENCY?

I've met people that get stressed or can't cope with day to day life, and while I sympathize, how can the TSA know whether she's faking it or telling the truth? If the "terrorists" find out they'll make an exception for victims of sexual assault they'll groom victims of sexual assault to carry out attacks.

While it's unfortunate what happened to your wife, we have yet to have another plane crash or even come close to crashing thanks to terrorists on US soil.

That said I think the TSA could use some more training and be cut back significantly, but at the end of the day there are people out there that can't cope with even minor inconveniences to them when they're traveling and frankly they should avoid traveling especially by air where it is a giant cattle car in the sky.

Air travel is cheaper than it's ever been and as such expect the same quality of "service" that you'll get at any discount business, which means getting a cold shoulder when you feel disrespected.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 5:56 pm   #70
 
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Originally Posted by anc1entmar1ner View Post
Complain to TSA here: http://www.tsa.gov/contact/index.shtm

Also complain to your congressman, both your senators, the White House and the airport administration every time TSA tries to force you through a naked body scanner or punishes you for refusing by subjecting you to the groping.

This is our only option for fighting back against an agency that is way out of control.
And not to go too far OMNI P/R here but I would also advise you to vote for Gary Johnson in the Presidential election. If you do so and are a life-long Republican, please send messages to the Romney campaign explaining the single issue that lost Romney your vote. If you vote for Johnson and are a life-long Democrat, please send messages to the White House explaining the single issue that lost Obama your vote.

Voters who refuse to stand up and buck the corrupt special-interest infested two party system (more scanners for Chertoff to sell to a Romney administration; more unionized government-employed thugs to be employed by an Obama administration) as it stands today are a big part of the problem.

The poster upthread that claimed that NO politician will take on TSA is wrong. While most won't, there are a few that will. If enough of us supported these politicians (even when they are in the opposite, or a third, party from our natural preference), change would be possible.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 6:04 pm   #71
 
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Thanks, Doctor. Except that doesn't explain why the hospital wanted to admit her for multiple nights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serioustraveler View Post
I suspect her OD'ing on the pills is what caused her to go to the ER...

All pro/anti TSA arguments aside, since when did vomiting and stress mean rushing to the ER?

Did this really qualify as an EMERGENCY?
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Old Aug 8, 12, 6:07 pm   #72
 
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No one should have to check their dignity at the security gate.

Although my story is not as awful as the OP'S, I , too, was treated for PTSD. To get a pat down here in the US is something I am skittish about but has not been nearly as horrifying for me as it is in Europe. In the last year, I have been patted down in both Amsterdam and in Rome. These people might as well be doing a breast exam and a pelvic. I can't bear the thought of ever going through that again.

To the OP: My best advice? Make sure your wife has a therapist that she can talk to before she needs to fly and that this individual is available to her via phone in the event that this happens to her again. My prayers go out to both of you!
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Old Aug 8, 12, 6:30 pm   #73
 
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Originally Posted by Herb687 View Post
The poster upthread that claimed that NO politician will take on TSA is wrong. While most won't, there are a few that will.
And they will achieve nothing of substance (see: John Mica) except a few soundbites here and there. One, two, twenty representatives don't have the necessary power, which is why I maintain that 'complaining' to any of them is essentially futile.

If there's going to be a White Knight, it won't be from Congress; nor the Judiciary until the current Justices umm... move on. Which leaves the Executive branch, and only a second-term one at that for the re-election consideration noted above. But not this second-term one I fear.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 7:18 pm   #74
 
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Originally Posted by serioustraveler View Post
That said I think the TSA could use some more training and be cut back significantly, but at the end of the day there are people out there that can't cope with even minor inconveniences to them when they're traveling and frankly they should avoid traveling especially by air where it is a giant cattle car in the sky.

Air travel is cheaper than it's ever been and as such expect the same quality of "service" that you'll get at any discount business, which means getting a cold shoulder when you feel disrespected.
You are glossing over the fact that it was not cattle car airline treatment that triggered the trauma. It was at the wandering hands of our government and the same thing could have happened to her at a train station or bus stop now.
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Old Aug 8, 12, 7:55 pm   #75
 
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Originally Posted by serioustraveler View Post
A whole bunch of nonsense.
You are one sick puppy.

Seriously, for your own sake, and that of those you love, please seek help.
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