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Old Aug 9, 12, 6:07 pm   #151
 
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Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
...TSA used a female officer to perform the pat down and it seems that the officer performed that pat down properly.
And that is precisely the problem.

The methodology currently in use by TSA to look for non-metallic explosives is the least effective (other than metal detection) one to use.

Color me surprised.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 7:59 pm   #152
 
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Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
I don't know what the TSA did wrong in this story. I am sympathetic to the situation of the woman described in the original post, but we can't exempt people from security screening just because they have mental health issues or an aversion to airport security measures.
The TSA is a federal agency that must comply with section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act and provide facilities accessible to the disabled. Serious PTSD subsequent to sexual assault is a covered disability, depending on the symptoms.

From the American Association of People with Disabilities:
The TSA Office of Disability Policy Outreach's charge is to address disability policy issues and civil rights/consumer concerns specific to security issues at airports. This would include investigating complaints where people feel wronged or where the rights of people with disabilities have been violated, such as under Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act or under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).
The OP should pursue this line of complaint and inquiry: that the TSA failed to provide accomodations appropriate to his wife's disability. The page that I linked to above gives detailed instructions on how to file these types of complaints. Don't forget to CC: your congressional representatives.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 8:22 pm   #153
 
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I don't want to fly in a world where anyone who claims mental distress gets to avoid pat downs after setting off a metal detector or after getting arrested.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 9:12 pm   #154
 
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Originally Posted by serioustraveler View Post
Because insinuating that their post had nothing intelligent to add is a great way to get them to stick around...

The fact is he does have a point, no one is forcing people to travel by air.

My post has been edited. Thanks for the appropriate comment.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 9:15 pm   #155
 
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Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
I don't want to fly in a world where anyone who claims mental distress gets to avoid pat downs after setting off a metal detector or after getting arrested.
Neither of which occurred in this situation.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 9:36 pm   #156
 
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Wink

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Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
I don't want to fly in a world where anyone who claims mental distress gets to avoid pat downs after setting off a metal detector or after getting arrested.
Why should we care what you want or don't want? After all, no one is forcing you to fly. (ha!) But the federal government should, in fact, be forced to follow the law.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 9:46 pm   #157
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Originally Posted by Brian1981 View Post
This is completely and totally out of control. Whenever I go into the TSA grope-down area (I will not let them cook me in the X-ray) I have my phone in recording mode. If someone is with me, they wait in the distance and record for me and then when I get through, I turn around and do the same for them. The whole time I maintain very direct eye-contact.
How do you keep a recording device with you when you're being groped?
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Old Aug 9, 12, 9:56 pm   #158
 
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Originally Posted by mybodyismyown View Post
Why should we care what you want or don't want? After all, no one is forcing you to fly. (ha!) But the federal government should, in fact, be forced to follow the law.
What do you want it to do? Ignore anomalies on the x ray machine and forego pat downs if the passenger claims to have mental health issues and an aversion to being touched? That's not reasonable.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 10:21 pm   #159
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
What do you want it to do? Ignore anomalies on the x ray machine and forego pat downs if the passenger claims to have mental health issues and an aversion to being touched? That's not reasonable.
I can only answer your rhetorical question by replying that I don't accept the premise. I'm opposed to the use of X-Ray scanners and to those falsely named "pat downs" that are actually custodial-style searches.

I don't believe submitting to one or the other - or both - enhances the safety of the traveling public to any meaningful degree but I believe their presence as standard operating procedure is a dreadful incursion on the rights of Americans.

YMMV.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 10:32 pm   #160
 
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Do you believe in metal detectors? What should TSA do if a person sets off a metal detector or makes the wand beep but claims to have mental health reasons why they shouldn't be pat down?
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Old Aug 9, 12, 10:50 pm   #161
 
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Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
I don't want to fly in a world where anyone who claims mental distress gets to avoid pat downs after setting off a metal detector or after getting arrested.
More room for those of us who aren't cowards.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 11:19 pm   #162
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
I don't know what the TSA did wrong in this story...
Try reading the OP again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop1847 View Post
My wife was sent towards the backscatter, and told the TSO she didn't want to go through that. I then overheard the TSO graphically describing that "they will need to touch your privates..."
...
And then they discovered an "anomaly" in her bra, so she needed to be patted down on her breasts. ... She asked for a private room and for me to be there, and it was obvious that this pissed off the female assist TSO. ... the TSO yelled that I couldn't touch her and that I'd need to go through screening again.

Had she been permitted to go through the metal detector, she would have been fine. But the language of the TSOs and lack of sympathy towards anyone with mental health issues is repulsive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop1847 View Post
Here's what the problem is: the TSA agents at the checkpoint were downright lewd to her. ... When I was in Japan, the security agents were professional and *apologetic* about asking me to take off my belt for screening. Had those agents been at FLL, she probably would have been fine. Instead, the TSA agents obviously enjoyed their authority and were harsh in their delivery of what would happen to her.

...The TSA needs to get their agents to understand that you can't lightly talk about touching private parts in front of some people
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
.... TSA used a female officer to perform the pat down and it seems that the officer performed that pat down properly.
Are you claiming that the items I've highlighted in bold above are proper procedure? Threatening language, yelling, lewd, throwing their authority around? Really? The OP explicitly said that if the screeners had behaved professionally and politely like the ones in Japan (and, IME, nearly everywhere else in the world), his wife would have been okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
Do you believe in metal detectors? What should TSA do if a person sets off a metal detector or makes the wand beep but claims to have mental health reasons why they shouldn't be pat down?
This is not a story about setting off the WTMD and then refusing a patdown. In fact, the WTMD would have been a better choice for the OP's wife:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop1847 View Post
Had she been permitted to go through the metal detector, she would have been fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop1847 View Post
The thing is she has flown many, many times since the incident. She's only ever gone through the metal detector, so this was the first time she's gone through the patdown.
The issue is two fold - first, compared to the WTMD, the NoS has a higher incidence of false positives, leading to more pat downs after scanning, not to mention a pat down if one opts out. Secondly, it's the way that the pat down is done - whether it's respectful and polite or whether it's a nasty, rude power play to enforce the screener's authority - more than the need to do the pat down.

When she asked for a private room, the screener should have said, "Of course, right this way" rather than getting pissed off. (In fact, the screener should have offered the private room in the first place; TSA keeps banging on about how you're allowed to have a private room and a witness.) When she started shaking and crying, the screener could have paused for a moment, said "I know this is difficult for you. Take a minute to catch your breath and let me know when you're ready to go on. I'll be as quick as I can." rather than yelling at the husband. But this would have given the passenger control ("let me know when you're ready") rather than enforcing the screener's authority.

I've had a patdown in Japan where the screener apologized before, during and after, let me stay seated (I had only sat down to take my shoes off but she said, "it's okay, you can stay there") and went and got my shoes from the conveyor belt afterwards, and helped me put them on. Also the actual pat down was not at all invasive. It was entirely about making me feel comfortable during an awkward process, not about making the screener feel powerful and important.
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Old Aug 9, 12, 11:32 pm   #163
 
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Let me express my sincere sympathy for what you and your wife experienced. Unfortunately, this sort of thing is all to common.

I had a meeting with TSA officials today before I read this post. They think they are doing a great job! They are proud that Less than 8% of the 750,000 to 800,000 of the calls they receive every year are complaints! I did the math; that's over 1,000 complaints a week, and nothing for TSA to be proud of.

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Old Aug 9, 12, 11:41 pm   #164
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
Do you believe in metal detectors? What should TSA do if a person sets off a metal detector or makes the wand beep but claims to have mental health reasons why they shouldn't be pat down?
But WTMD plus wand isn't an option anymore in the US. It doesn't exist, so why argue that fact?

The scanner is useless. The extremely high rate of anomalies is one of the many reasons the German federal police refused the scanners after extensive trials, and why most countries around the world refuse to use them.

I don't have time to post my Werner Gruber link right now, but you really should educate yourself on why so many are angry at the waste in the US to use something which doesn't make you safer.
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Old Aug 10, 12, 2:51 am   #165
 
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Originally Posted by jphripjah View Post
What do you want it to do? Ignore anomalies on the x ray machine and forego pat downs if the passenger claims to have mental health issues and an aversion to being touched? That's not reasonable.
the new zealanders use metal detectors and hand wanding to resolve. I saw no touching whatsoever the last time I passed through it. women's underwires evidently set off the WTMD occasionally and the wand confirmed the location without any need for breast groping and crotch feeling. why do you insist that this must be done? These are things that really cannot be done to people not under criminal suspicion. This is an odd and sick fetish. From an odd and sick agency.
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