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Old Jul 3, 12, 11:51 am   #1
 
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Why there will never another 9/11

For the TSA pumpers who still don't get it, this is why another 9/11 will never happen.

Two plane hijackers 'beaten to death by passengers' in China
http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/t...-1226415821620
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Old Jul 3, 12, 12:23 pm   #2
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Too bad for the hijackers but sadly imho, there will be another 9/11 (tho I sincerely hope not) but it won't be via the use of an airplane (and also imho, if it happens in the U.S., it will be another we-had-all-the-pieces-but-the-left-hand-didn't-talk-to-nor-play-well-in-the-sandbox-with-the-right-hand situation)
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Old Jul 3, 12, 12:56 pm   #3
 
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Too bad for the hijackers but sadly imho, there will be another 9/11 (tho I sincerely hope not) but it won't be via the use of an airplane
Member of the Flight Deck Officer Program takes his gun, shoots their fellow pilot after take off, declares and emergency and in the confusion flies plane into building - even if the rest of the crew know what's happening they can't do anything about it as the door is locked
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Old Jul 3, 12, 1:01 pm   #4
 
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Member of the Flight Deck Officer Program takes his gun, shoots their fellow pilot after take off, declares and emergency and in the confusion flies plane into building - even if the rest of the crew know what's happening they can't do anything about it as the door is locked
Highly unlikely.

More likely it won't involve aircraft or will involve unscreened cargo.

Or a TSO.
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Old Jul 3, 12, 1:04 pm   #5
 
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Member of the Flight Deck Officer Program takes his gun, shoots their fellow pilot after take off, declares and emergency and in the confusion flies plane into building - even if the rest of the crew know what's happening they can't do anything about it as the door is locked
That would involve only a single plane. I highly doubt that you would get several pilots to participate in such an event. Even in that case a gun is not needed. The CP goes to the bathroom every once in while, nothing to stop the pilot from locking them out and flying the plane in to the ground. Life involves risk.
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Old Jul 3, 12, 1:05 pm   #6
 
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Life involves risk.
What?!?!?!?!

Say it ain't so!
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Old Jul 3, 12, 1:42 pm   #7
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Highly unlikely.

More likely it won't involve aircraft or will involve unscreened cargo.

Or a TSO.
Read up on PSA Flight 1771 for the more likely scenario. Yet ground personnel can still bypass security.
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Old Jul 3, 12, 1:42 pm   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanR View Post
Member of the Flight Deck Officer Program takes his gun, shoots their fellow pilot after take off, declares and emergency and in the confusion flies plane into building - even if the rest of the crew know what's happening they can't do anything about it as the door is locked
The scenario you describe can be a non-FFDO taking out the other pilot or simply putting the plane into an uncontrollable dive as well but that is out of our control-the issue I was addressing was pax taking over the aircraft as mentioned in the article
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Old Jul 3, 12, 2:12 pm   #9
 
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Riiiiiiiight

Quote:
Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the German-based World Uyghur Congress which campaigns for Uighurs’ rights, said that it wasn’t a hijacking attempt, rather an in-flight brawl over a seat dispute.
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Old Jul 3, 12, 2:24 pm   #10
 
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Originally Posted by alanR View Post
Member of the Flight Deck Officer Program takes his gun, shoots their fellow pilot after take off, declares and emergency and in the confusion flies plane into building - even if the rest of the crew know what's happening they can't do anything about it as the door is locked
Tom Clancy Debt of Honor
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Old Jul 3, 12, 4:06 pm   #11
 
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It all depends on how you are defining '9/11' - not only will there be more 'terrorist' attacks in the future - by some party or other - by some means or other - the body counts will be higher, lower and about the same.

Why? Because 'never' is a long time - and terrorism is an attractive option in asymmetrical warfare.
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Old Jul 3, 12, 8:49 pm   #12
 
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Member of the Flight Deck Officer Program takes his gun, shoots their fellow pilot after take off, declares and emergency and in the confusion flies plane into building - even if the rest of the crew know what's happening they can't do anything about it as the door is locked
More likely he shoots himself. These guys are weird.
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Old Jul 3, 12, 9:56 pm   #13
 
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Riiiiiiiight
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Old Jul 4, 12, 10:07 am   #14
 
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It all depends on how you are defining '9/11' - not only will there be more 'terrorist' attacks in the future - by some party or other - by some means or other - the body counts will be higher, lower and about the same.

Why? Because 'never' is a long time - and terrorism is an attractive option in asymmetrical warfare.
I mean 9/11 in the context of hijackers, either lone or in multiple teams, taking over planes and using them as missiles. This scenario is the one the TSA uses to justify it's existence, and the one they focus on the most. The ridiculousness of having your nail files and small tools confiscated "because it could be used as a weapon" is directly tied to this type of attack. While lately they have increased some focus on explosives, this is still minor compared to the fear of anything that could be sharp. No one is going to hijack a plane using their pen knife, razor, or screw driver anymore.
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Old Jul 4, 12, 11:04 am   #15
 
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You guys need a little more imagination if you're going to become good terrorists...

The passenger rebellion factor is relatively easy to overcome. Use the same techniques that we use to find lightly booked flights to get easier upgrades, or heavily booked flights to get IDB vouchers, to find lightly booked flights then put more hijackers on each airplane. 50 random passengers aren't going to have much change against 20 young, fit, trained hijackers in the small confines of an airliner.

Harder to overcome, though not impossible, are the locked cockpit door and no cooperation procedures. Getting past that locked door would likely require some kind of diversion which looks nothing at all like a hijacking. i.e. Medical problem, small cabin fire, etc.

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Originally Posted by 16A View Post
Read up on PSA Flight 1771 for the more likely scenario. Yet ground personnel can still bypass security.
The security hole that David Burke used on PSA1771 was closed in the early 1990s when the electronic ID badge access systems were installed in all commercial airports. The airlines can now turn off an employees airport access immediately. Once off, the only way for the employee to get air-side is through security.

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Originally Posted by VelvetJones View Post
I mean 9/11 in the context of hijackers, either lone or in multiple teams, taking over planes and using them as missiles. This scenario is the one the TSA uses to justify it's existence
Actually, it's not.

The main focus of TSA is preventing explosives from getting on board as evidenced by all of the technologies and procedures that they have implemented over the past ten years aimed squarely at explosive detection. 100% screening of checked baggage for explosives, better x-ray scanners which can highlight the difference between organic and inorganic materials in carry-on bags, ETD screening, AIT scanners, and the all-popular enhanced pat-down procedure.

While preventing weapons which would aid in a conventional hijacking is still part of their mission, the chances of such an attack succeeding has been reduced and the terrorists have switched their method of attack to explosives.
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